DeBenedictis, you're comparing Obama to fourth graders, uh, ya, that's about right.

Joe McLeland, you took the words right off my keyboard.
National security first!! Remember 9-11

The recall will fail, this will give the Don and the suck-up bottom feeding attorney Jeff Heintz, just what they want.
The failure of the recall will give the Don that much more ammunition come election time.
Re-think this recall attempt.

@Jeffrey T. Heintz - {{{''Figures lie, and liars figure}}}

Speakin' of the title Jeff, $8M for fixin' up homes and removin' blight. Iff'n y'all were a tad smarter and less of a cheerleader, y'all would have known that Akron alone, has over 8500 vacant/abandoned dwellin's. That money would amount to less than $1000 per home, and wouldn't even pay the property taxes for them.

Since y'all are figurin' out how much it costs each citizen of Akron for a recall election, did y'all also figure out how much it cost each citizen for the Portage Hotel, Youngs Resaurant, Summa's Acute Care center, Brennan's downtown hotel and Canal Park, jes to name a few.

Nope, I didn't think so.

@Joseph C. McLeland - Nicely said. And Nancy Pelosi agrees with y'all.

@James Kurth - The difference is, that the contractor can work to pay back what he took, and the teenager can't get his job back at McD's.

@Deb C. DeBenedictis - Try teachin' them readin' writin' and arithmetic, before y'all veture into teachin' them any social graces or any of y'alls political positions.

Lost lives... very funny. :)

@ Jeffrey Heintz --

Good points -- while $8-million won't cure all of the problems associated with blighted properties, it is a good start, and is a good step in the right direction. Hopefully Warner and Company's short-sighted recall effort won't derail the progress Akron has made.

Mr Heintz and the Beacon continue to smear rather then deal with the questions surrounding our city government. The debt, the land deals, the unsustainable spending.

There is no dynamic growth Akron. All of our "progress" is dependent on grants and handouts. We have to beg corporations that were born here not to leave. I guess grovelling for scraps has replaced real growth.

@Betamax...As usual, you avoid the question and rant in a direction of your choosing. What Ms DeBenedictus addresses is fundamental human interaction, and what is appropriate thereto. It has nothing to do with either 'social graces' or 'political positions'. I keep hoping that you will be able to read, comprehend, then respond, but all I ever see from you is a response, typically unrelated to the issue.

I agree with Betamax, the Big BM, that reading and writing should be taught in addition to values. I don't think it really matters which comes first in the school day.

@Mr. McLeland, wow. What a strong retrospective hypothetical. I see the brain trust is already falling in line behind you, and who can blame them with such a fact-filled argument.

Dear McLeland: Memo to you. ALL TORTURE IS ILLEGAL...NO TO MENTION IMMORAL. Funny how the "moral clowns" embrace such an "immoral act". Even when they ( Republicans ) try to put on a brave face they wind up sounding like the trombone player in the Titanic brass band. Congrats....ONLY 21% of the American electorate idenitfy themselves with your TOXIC PARTY.

Of course torture should be and is illegal, but in war there are no rules. These police action meat grinders that we are involved in do not qualify as wars, which leads what we have now.

We should be a Republic not and Empire, and should have never left our shores to "seek monsters to destroy."

Dear Blkswn: But there are "rules" during war time. Just ask the Germans and Japanese who were prosecuted for war crimes. Better brush up on your history my friend.

wow I need to proof read

the winners make the rules....

Dear blkswn: And just who are the "winners"???? Your logic evades me.

I agree with minna. Reading and writing should be taught in public schools. The schools teaching values though is another subject. One that stands out to me is knowing how to spend/save money. I guess the next generation is going to be worse than this one. LOL

This is what happens when parents depend on the public school system to teach "values".

http://www.ohio.com/news/44209097.html

Truth Sought,

Logic evades most people on here so do not feel bad. LOL

@Jeff. You forgot to mention that your law firm represents the City of Akron in litigation against one of the recall co-chairs regarding Plusquellic's violation of campaign finance laws which enabled him to win the in last Mayoral election by about 1,000 votes.

@blkswan - where is the "dynamic growth" in Cleveland, Youngstown, Cincinnati, Toledo, Columbus, Dayton? So our Mayor's actively trying to transform our way of doing business and investing in the future by begging companies like Goodyear to stick around is a reason to recall him?

Until someone can point to criminal activities by our Mayor there should be no recall. Elections are in place already to voice your objections on personal matters.

Should Jack Lord be recalled because he slept with Rock Hudson?

hmmm Truth, the winners are the winners?

@Joe McLeland:

You and your fanboys here are what is doing wrong to our country.

You've settled for the lowest common denominator.

Get a little historical perspective - what if all the generations before had been equally underachieving?

We are better than that. Even if you aren't.

jestere,

The fake growth of printing money and propping up rotten foundations is bankrupting us on all levels. Ohio cities, in particular those in NE Ohio have been working from the same playbook for decades. All with the same results.

Dag,

Logic evades? What is the point of that post?

@Warner Me-Me-hall: So what. More sour grapes.

He is still allowed to have an opinion.

The difference is that he won't waste $170,000 of taxpayer money expressing his.

He's an adult.

nott,

That falls out of the Mayor's pockets when he gets out of his car... The Mayor's office budget is $4.5 million dollars all by itself! He has more cabinet level positions then the Mayor of NYC! This for Akron, OH?

People keep bringing up supposed conflicts of interest on the part of Change Akron Now people. Is it not appropriate to point out those of the people lining up behind the Mayor?

Interesting that so many Republicans in Akron support the Mayor? Just confirming that they are part of the machine.

@blkswn said:"Ohio cities, in particular those in NE Ohio have been working from the same playbook for decades. All with the same results."

Nice dodge. Extremely over generalized.

The rape of the rust belt was a corporate affair. The local governments have had to rewrite the playbook.

From scratch, with no perspective or exemplary successes to learn from.

And they learn more with each revision.

Joseph C. McLeland

To the pansy liberals, don't wet yourself over what I'm about to write...
War is a necessary evil that we'll always have and one of the most efficient war strategies is torture. I'm not sure what the libs would use as an alternative, beating them at Parcheesi until they talk??
The liberal left thinking has always baffled me, when I was in the Air Force we stored Mk82 and Mk84 bombs in bunkers (500lb and 2000lb bombs.) It was near the end of the Carter Administration and one of our duties was to sand and repaint these bombs in the event that we would find rust. I asked why would we go through this process when such small amounts would be found and we'd have to repaint the whole bomb. I guess someone under Jimmy Carter put out a memo that is was considered cruel and unusual punishment to drop a bomb with rust on the enemy. Here's your sign Liberals

Dear Blkswn: So Akrons' mayor has MORE cabinet level positions than the mayor on NYC??? Prove it. If you cannot prove it...then disable your keyboard so the rest of us do not have to read your weak drivel.

http://www.ci.akron.oh.us/mayor/cabinet.htm

http://www.nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/menuitem.047d873163b300bc6c4451f401c789a0/index.jsp?doc_name=/html/mail/html/appoint.html

@WarnerMendenhall...you forgot to mention that your law firm makes it's living off suing the city and that you have a vested interest in discreting Plusquellic......and the last mayoral election was decided when the Mayor ran unopposed so get your facts straight.

I do not understand the point of the ad hominem attacks during the discussions on this forum....

@The Ghost of Tom Joad

I'm not commenting on your post, just congratulating you on your choice of name for this board - another Rage fan, I presume, and a great track from a great former band.

@UseCommonSense.... wonderful addition to this site. keep up the good work. I have some signs for a few people here as well.

@Use Common Sense To the pansy liberals, don't wet yourself over what I'm about to write...
War is a necessary evil that we'll always have and one of the most efficient war strategies is torture. I'm not sure what the libs would use as an alternative, beating them at Parcheesi until they talk??
The liberal left thinking has always baffled me, when I was in the Air Force we stored Mk82 and Mk84 bombs in bunkers (500lb and 2000lb bombs.) It was near the end of the Carter Administration and one of our duties was to sand and repaint these bombs in the event that we would find rust. I asked why would we go through this process when such small amounts would be found and we'd have to repaint the whole bomb. I guess someone under Jimmy Carter put out a memo that is was considered cruel and unusual punishment to drop a bomb with rust on the enemy. Here's your sign Liberals

I agree that war is a necessary evil. I do not, however, agree with torture.

Regarding your ignorant comment about rust... did it ever cross your mind that you were simply keeping the bombs in proper working order? Oxidation is a process that deteriorates the integrity of the surface on which it is occurring... simply put... you were prolonging the life of the bombs.

Let me ask you this... would you ever go into combat with a rusty weapon?

Dear Use No Sense: Guess what genious.....TORTURE DOES NOT WORK. Our own generals have stated that little factoid. You get useless intelligence....wild goose chases that waste time and money. You are defending something that cannot be defended. Your Republican Party....er THE PARTY...is trapped in a toxic fused loop od its own design. It rlies on hate-peddlers like Limbaugh, Hannity..Beck and Savage to gin up the THE PARTY base of fools. Good luck with your Titanic.

What a hoot. That's a great story, Use Common. Even funnier is that you believed it. Explains a lot.

@UsedUncommonScents:

Prove your allegations about torture effectiveness. You can't.

It is also enlightening to see that you are such a go-getter that the Air Force found such a fitting job for your obvious intellect.

Bomb scraper/painter. Nuff said.

@blkswn:

You compared apples and oranges. The NYC site doesn't list an assistant anything.

If you'd read the rest of the page, you'd see dozens of other agencies, etc.

Weak.

You can go to the Dept section of Akron website to see those.... I still think the point is valid. For a city of our size to have this much overhead day in and day out is absurd.

@BetaJoe got in ahead of the other 3 Stoogez with this winner:"Deb C. DeBenedictis - Try teachin' them readin' writin' and arithmetic, before y'all veture into teachin' them any social graces or any of y'alls political positions."

If the shoe fits, chew on it.

You are just angry because she doesn't even know you exist, but she still called you out and BeeYotch slapped you.

HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

@blkswn:

The City of Stow has 11 departments.

The City of Cuyahoga Falls has 20 departments.

The City of Medina has 18 departments.

What's your barometer? Just opinion?

Still weak.

I really do not understand the lack of civility... it does nothing for the arguments

Mr. nott,

It appears you are now comparing apples and oranges. The departments in the cities listed above pale in comparison to Akron's.

@blkswn I really do not understand the lack of civility... it does nothing for the arguments

A word of advice... there are some on this board who never offer comments of any value... they easily identify themselves... the smart thing to do is to ignore them

RE: Ego Trip

Jim Miller, spot on. If they said "I've got loud pipes because I like the way they sound" I'd have a lot more respect for them. Same as people who don't wear helmets, don't tell me that riding without one is safer (that is BS). Tell me that you like the feel of the wind in your hair (and the bugs in your teeth), that I can believe.

Warner --

How many hundreds of thousands of dollars have you milked from the city, county, and university in attorney's fees over the last several years? Are you now representing the "recall co-chair" in the litigation over the much-investigated-yet-nothing-found campaign finance reports (with the hopes of getting more outrageous attorney's fees)?

Be a man: pay ALL of your taxes -- no negotiated settlements or partial payments -- before you start talking about financial responsibility!

hey nottheusual, any job in the military is one that should be respected to go stick your head back in the sand before you start insulting our service men and women. shame on you for being so classless, they risk sacrificing their lives everyday so you can have the right to submit your stupidity...

so go stick your head in the sand.....

Not the usual 1: you wanted someone to cite a time torture didn't work.

This from Presidential nominee John McCain... didn't surrender information. And when he did it was false. Because you don't get real information from torture, just what you want to hear... but let McCain tell you that below...

One guard held me while the others pounded away.

They cracked several of my ribs and broke a couple of teeth. Weakened by beatings and dysentery, with my right leg again nearly useless, I found it impossible to stand. On the third night I lay in my own blood and waste, so tired and hurt that I could not move. Three guards lifted me to my feet and gave me the worst beating yet. They left me lying on the floor moaning from the stabbing pain in my re-fractured arm.

Despairing of any relief from pain and further torture, I tried to take my life. After several unsuccessful attempts, I managed to stand. Up-ending the waste bucket, I stepped on it, bracing myself against the wall with my good arm. I looped my shirt through the shutters. As I looped it around my neck, a guard saw the shirt through the window, pulled me off the bucket and beat me.

Later, I made a second, feebler attempt at suicide. On the fourth day, I gave up. I signed a confession that "I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pilot". The guards ordered me to record my confession on tape. I refused, and was beaten until I consented.

@Watching, gimme a break. Just because someone performed that highly honorable duty to their country, you can't call them out for saying something inane? Should we also treat as off-limits anyone who has chosen and sacrificed to serve in an elected office?

To blkswan....the incivility is the whole point.

I know that makes it all even worse....but I've seen enough to know that that's the truth

Well said, Jeff Heintz!

Considering the improvements to the downtown area that have happened under his tenure, Plusquellic is obviously doing something right. I don't agree with everything he does (sewer system plan, for example) but he has done a lot of positive things for this city.

Hmmm . . . "CommonSense" (!) torture as "strategy"? That's an interesting concept, but does anyone agree with this? Didn't Jesus tell one of his disciples: "if you live by the sword, you shall die by it"? (or something similar)

I don't think anyone is seeking torture as strategy--the question is whether in extreme situations, extreme methods should be used. I don't think even Rush Limbaugh advocates torture as a strategy.

@Twitching said:"hey nottheusual, any job in the military is one that should be respected to go stick your head back in the sand before you start insulting our service men and women. shame on you for being so classless, they risk sacrificing their lives everyday so you can have the right to submit your stupidity."

No disrespect to anything military. I'm a veteran, as I've said before.

I was commenting on how well the Air Force had done in recognizing the inherent talents of the poster.

As many of the uber-vets have shown, being a veteran doesn't exclude you from personal responsibility for your positions.

And speaking of hateful - again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

You got the old saying wrong Jeff. It's "Figures don't lie but liars figure." In any event you are on the nail about the recall people. They are the same negative Nancys that complain about everything and anything in our community.

@Matt:

John McCain will always be a war hero, never mind his politics.

I'm still holding out for the example of how torture worked and how it changed some outcome.

@blkswn said:"It appears you are now comparing apples and oranges. The departments in the cities listed above pale in comparison to Akron's."

Not according to the links you provided as evidence. It shows that most municipalities have the same departments, no matter what size.

I just asked for your measuring stick or if this was just your opinion.

Usual...Sorry. I thought you said torture worked and wanted proof it didn't. McCain himself is proof. I don't think torture works.

hmmm it looks to me like Akron is much more heavily staffed. But the point it is there is so much overhead and cronyism in the government that should be cut. We simply can not afford it.

Further as far as downtown. Nothing happens downtown dynamically. There is government money behind all of it.

@blkswn:

I agree on the overhead and cronyism bits. Not many places seem to be immune, though.

Only the voters can change that.

True on downtown, too. But, again, not many places immune from that, either.

Urban projects always seem to attract the David Brennan's of the world - they want all the rewards and want the taxpayer to take the risk or foot the bill.

Yet, all the really successful inner city revitalizations started that way, too. There doesn't seem to be an option........

Indeed... there is a saying "The Democrats get the seats, the Republicans get the $$$"

We have a classic machine here... and maybe everywhere, but it is hard to simply stand by and let the looting continue.

Deb C. DeBenedictis - What you are teaching children is dangerous, and a threat to their safety. While "conflict resolution, diversity and understanding, and compromise" may work between supervised children, to deny to children that there are evil people out there who rape and murder children where negotiating can cost them their lives is irresponsible. Attempting to use rationale and reason with the irrational and unreasonable is dangerous. Are you telling your children that when confronted by an abductor or child molester to "try to understand one another's differences, compromise when appropriate and be inclusive." Obama's "lesson" is to negotiate with evil. What compromise do you offer someone who wants us all dead? To only kill half of us? Why would anyone teach a child this nonsense without including the fact that to do so when there is no reasonable chance of success could be dangerous and deadly. Children and presidents should not be negotiating with evil. That is the lesson you should be teaching children.

Yeah - it wears thin. And both party's in Summit County are just as twisted.

The Dem's don't seem really well glued together. Too many big egos and too small a spotlight, so they pout and stay home. The few who do shine grow up (politically) and book for Columbus.

Fat Alex and The Party aren't much of an option. His crew would just rename the cronies and do a mass re-fill on all the patronage jobs. It's all about "power" with him.

What power? Who's the biggest blow-hard in a city in a county in a state in a region that's been "rusting" for 25 years?

Might be indicative of the generational brain-drain a lack of opportunity can cause.....

@Osama Bin Ritt-twit:

How you got where you are from what she wrote must have been quite a journey.

Did you have to use a GPS or did the voices give good enough directions?

John McCain was tortured. To charcterize what happened to the terrorist detainees in Gitmo as "torture" is laughable. Ill bet John McCain would have gladly traded Vietnamese torture for American torture at any time. The guys who saw off screaming people's heads for internet videos have got to be delirious with laughter when they hear what we are calling torture.

Waterboarding the planner of 911 resulted in disclosing plans for a terrorist attack in Los Angeles which was thwarted because of the information gathered. Justified and the practice should have been continued before some idiot decided to disclose interrogation practices to our enemy. They used to call that treason.

@nottheusual1 - Maybe somebody here will help you with the big words.

@Osama bin Rit-Twit:

You split hairs over the egregiousness of torture. That is wicked low-brow.

And you need to do a non-Fox fact check on the LA assertions.

They had the bad actor for that in jail a month before they tortured the info into existence. How can something that can't happen justify torture?

It's just plain sick that a rational human being would justify torturing another human being.

Sorry - I gave you credit for being rational. My bad.

Hey Common Sense: When I was a Senior in High School (early 70's), I dated a guy from Green Twp whose brother was in the Air Force. He told me he was a "bomb washer", and described to me his duties scrubbing and repainting all the bombs. This was the Nixon-Ford era - so it's not a whiney liberal Jimmy Carter thing. Boy, for somebody who claims they "use common sense"........

@Bevian: I think that's what his father said every time he bipped him in the back of the head.

See what violence does. It's a shame.

Thank you for your letter Deb. One comment ask if you are comparing Obama to 4th graders but they don't seem to understand it was the bush administration you are comparing to 4th graders.
Yes, act like an adult & don't try to prove who's is bigger.

By the way there are rules in war. This is what the entire argument is about. Bush broke the law, he & his administration are war criminals.
We are supposed to be extraordinary country because we are supposed to have a high set of principles (you know, "do gooders"). We do our best but if you start behaving the way all the people who we think we are going to improve the situation of then. WE LOST THE BATTLE !

@Use Common Sense = To the pansy liberals, don't wet yourself over what I'm about to write...
War is a necessary evil that we'll always have and one of the most efficient war strategies is torture.

Wow ! There you are. With thinking like this we will always be in a war ! I always wonder how many wars people that think like this attended.

Don't remember your rule but do remember the UN Charter & The US Constitution Article Six (says we must follow the Charter).
(You can not start a war in order to prevent one you THINK might happen.)
Imagine how many additional invasions there would be if this were legal.

Good letter Jim. Little boys showing off. There is a horn & if needed they may use it. I hear too much unnecessary noise for their argument to be legitimate. Grow up, show some respect for others & obey the law. An automobile could make the same stupid argument about noise but they quickly get a ticket = That is a good thing !

I am at a loss for words today. Well actually I got fifteen out today.

Speaking of "who's is bigger" Vrmmmm Vrmmmm.

@Betamax, Forum Ignorant: you continue to show us exactly how uneducated and clueless you are really are. Only someone as ignorant as you (given your way of writing, like this is the 20's deep south), would think that that money is to be spread around the every single property.

What a moron you are and clearly you're very proud of it. That money is used to do something about the properties are in extremely poor conditions -- mainly the ones that were at the hands of predatory lenders and are most likely going to be demolished.

ANd the fact that you brought up all of those other examples is really indicative you should just hold your breath for about 10 minutes and go away already. Yeah -- the Portage Hotel. That was worth keeping up. How long was it closed before it was finally torn down? Yeah that closed up hotel was really raking in the tax dollars compared to what's there now. What a stupid move Plusquellic made having that decrepit, vacant and worthless building torn down so that land could be redeveloped into a viable INCOME TAX generating entity.

Here's an idea BETAMORON -- shut up, troll. The only thing you know is showing your 4th grade education (if that) because you worked the fields.

@WarnerMendenhall --

I forgot to add that: and THIS coming from someone who is currently in the process of defending your CRIMINAL WIFE because she was cited for running a red light/speeding?

So, let's review for everyone about Akron's biggest joke and loser:

1. Warner Mendenhall KNOWINGLY does not pay his taxes.

2. Warner Mendenhall KNOWINGLY does not pay child support, as ordered, which is a crime per ORC.

3. Warner Mendenhall IS A LIAR!

4. Warner Mendenhall supports people who put other people's lives in jeopardy by running red lights and speeding.

5. Warner Mendenhall, who is SO STUPID AND INCOMPETANT as an attorney KNOWINGLY lies, misrepresents the truth and does NOT prove any criminal act and/or wrongdoing with his accusations the Mayor.

And knowing the COWARD you are Warner, you won't respond to this. I am going to be one of the FIRST PEOPLE on your doorstep LMAO at you when this is all said and done and you LOSE.

And you try this again, and I will be filing a class action lawsuit against you for wasting tax payer money. Go ahead, DEADBEAT and try me. I've had people higher than you suspended. I'll run you outta town. You're beneath me. Oh yeah -- I really hope you try to get my IP.

Now pay your support DEADBEAT (and knowing some of the idiot supporters of you, you'll report this, which only shows how much more of a coward you are).

@blkswn -- do you take pride in being THAT stupid or are you being paid by Ohio.com to play the idiot?

Here's an idea -- just like I told Warner Mendenhall -- either prove your accusations w/citations of fact, rulings, etc. or shut up. You DO realize that the majority of Akron knows you guys are liars, don't you?

@Karzyken who ignorantly said: "If you're that much of an idiot then I pitty your clients."

Idiot huh? Once again, the pro-recall people are too stupid to actually respond with anything of substance, so they have to resort to this.

So, KLUELESSKEN -- please tell us what made him an idiot. Citations of fact/sources, please.

This should be entertaining.

Or KLUELESSKEN -- you'll be like Betamax, Warner DEADBEAT PARENT Mendenhall and other pro-recall uneducated fools and not respond.

It's easier for you no-talent hacks to throw what you can against the wall to see what sticks. As usual with you guys (as with your life), nothing sticks.

I look forward to you 3 headlining the "SUCKS TO BE US" tour. Maybe it can be charity so Mendenhall can pay his child support, since he managed to waste the money on something else from the UA settlement a couple of months ago with Manny.

Do some research before you claim racism. The man who got 3 years took the purse by force which makes it a strong armed robbery. The man who got one year was a felony theft. The difference is the assault during the theft.

@James Kurth - I agree that white collar crimes need to be penalized more heavily than they are now.

The Uncle Ed...
"Regarding your ignorant comment about rust... did it ever cross your mind that you were simply keeping the bombs in proper working order?"

Oh now Uncle Ed, have you ever seen a bomb up close. There are no moving parts, it's just a large chunk of steel with explosives inside. So my "ignorant" comment isn't so ignorant. I just thought that what kind of person would make a comment like, "You can't drop a rusted bomb on your enemy since it's considered cruel and unusual", it has to come from a liberal wienee type that is opposed to torturing our enemies. When a bomb is dropped I doubt if anyone is thinking, "boy I hope this doesn't hurt anyone."