Wilbur F. Peters:

A couple of years ago, I was driving in the areas of mid-southern Ohio where a lot strip mining has been done. You really have to witness the devastation as you’re cruising through rolling hills of green forested areas, then suddenly, flat, vast wasteland. Any person who loves this country should be angered that these companies can get away with this.

Colleen Phillips:

Obviously you missed the point of the meeting and have focused on your personal issues with drinking. Not everyone that has a beer, a glass of wine or a shot of booze is a social deviant.

Excellent animal rights letter Elinor. Farm animals need humane protections from animal abuse & that's what the HSUS is trying to do. Sadly, factory farmers care nothing about humane treatment of farm animals & only care abour money. As for Amy's letter on gay games, huh? The Gay Games are welcome & stopping discrimination starts by bringing the Gay Games to Ohio. I welcome the Gay Games & support gay rights & the Gay Games is a positive first step towards opening homophobic minds.

Our minds have become so open everything has seemingly fallen out.

mmaxxs,

Driving in a car which was largely made of steel no doubt.

I agree with Amy. We won't let gay people have equal rights but the state wants their money!

And Wilbur Peters, you are right. It is sad what these coal companies have done to the landscape!!

Ms Armstrong...Don't "Gay Games" discriminate against heterosexuals? Can you imagine having "Heterosexual Games?" Having competitions in which your sexual orientation qualifies you for the event and excludes others from participation promotes the very discrimination that gays abhor.

I'm with you. Ohio shouldn't be the host.

As far as a teachable moment- I saw that the cop was attentive to the infirmities of elderly black man, and lent his arm for support to aid the man who attacked him for doing his job, while BO arrogantly walked ahead totally unaware and unconcerned of his old friend's needs. That was what I saw and learned.

I guess drilling in the Carribean should be left to China and Russia. That insures no accidents.
They have to be exstatic that we are so environmentally concerned we will sacrifice our future by not developing our own resources.
It must be a cold war tactic to infiltrate us with people that put environment over survival.

"Headline News: Unemployment rate fell to 9.4 percent in July. Pace of job loss slowed to 247,000 -- beating analyst expectations"

...albeit 6 weeks later than I predicted early last winter...now if they had only listened to me not to bail out anyone, we would be ahead there as well.

Not that its over but proving once again we eventually come out of every recession - only this time deeply in debt.

Bud, in the original article it was stated that anyone can join in the games regardless of sexual orientation.

@Bud Wiser
This is what the Gay Games say about their program:

'It is a fundamental principle of the Federation of Gay Games that all activities conducted under its auspices shall be inclusive in nature and that no individual shall be excluded from participating on the basis of sexual orientation, gender, race, religion, nationality, ethnic origin, political belief(s), athletic/artistic ability, physical challenge, age, or health status.'

They do not exclude heterosexuals from participating. Feel free to sign up.

Then why call them "Gay Games"?

ColleenPhilips...instead of having a beer with the 2 dudes, maybe Obama should have put on an air force suit and had a meeting below a large banner that read: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

@ Bud Wiser - do you really expect a 'valid' reply to your last question?

Elinor Israel..... agreed

Yes, PacMan, I expect a reply. The boilerplate language of inclusiveness is a joke.

Or, have I misinterpreted "Gay Games" all along and it's really meant to mean "Happy Games?"

Colleen Phillips,

What? I think it was that it's adult to sit down and talk over your problems. If they sat down over steaks, should PETA write in that he's teaching people to eat animals?

"If we do not put the focus on health and on the prevention of chronic disease, we will continue to support a high-cost system that is focused on sick care instead of well care."

That's absolutely right... and not disincentivizing negative behaviors through insurance premiums, as is prohibited in public plan proposals, sure doesn't advance this goal. I'm all for free choice, but if you are building a collectivist system, you lose your "rights," as it pertains to influencing health risk factors, and people had better pay for their respective choices.

@PacMan

Based on nothing whatsoever, you conclude that the current economic trends are a natural phenomenon, and that government spending was irrelevant.

The components of aggregate demand are (approximately) 65% all the people who write here, 15% business capital investment and 20% all government levels (excluding transfers such as social security and unemployment). About 6% of the total is Federal government. Starting in the fall of 2007, the 65% started to decerase spending, followed by the 15% of companies, followed by the 14% of state and local governments. Only the Federal government maintained, and expanded, expenditures. Only the Federal government was capable of braking the effects of the recession.

We are not out of the woods yet, but we appear to be coming out. However, without efforts at the national level, as the only demand component spending money, we would still be walking into the woods.

Amy Armstrong,

Give me a break. Cleveland has a strong gay community. Just because the gay lobby doesn't achieve certain rights doesn't mean that they are "second-class citizens." Tolerance can't always be measured by analyzing legislation. Heck, SF hosted the games in the past and California voters passed voter initiatives banning gay marriage. Should SF be posthumously stripped of the record of having held the games?

@Bud Wiser

Your original assertion was that the Gay Games discriminate. When informed they do not, you question the name. The name is irrelevant. But just for you, we'll call them the Happy Games...now run along and sign up.

Paul48...the name is irrelevant? Please explain how a name is irrelevant. I think words do have meaning and the Gay Games are meant to attract Gays, no?

@ Paul48 - "that government spending was irrelevant" - yes, I feel it was out of line and of no 'proven' value. How do you know we would not have started a recovery 4 months ago without any intervention?

Paul48,

I disagree. What you state is pure Keynesian theory and Keynesian theory itself is not universally accepted in economics. Consumer spending would not continuously decrease as you implicitly suggest and not every recession is fought with government intervention through spending.

The other issue is that Government Consumption & Investment was up 2% in Q2 over PY. Put another way, Government spending is up 4% from Q1 '08 to Q2 '09. That is hardly the pop that you are trying to portray that can offset the largest component of GDP flatlining and now seeing reductions over the last two quarters.

Also, more than half of government spending is at the state and local level. The Federal spending is largely offset by cuts at lower levels.

http://www.bea.gov/national/index.htm#gdp

Blkswn sez> Driving in a car which was largely made of steel no doubt.

Well, yes, and I do understand that we build cars using power from coal.

My point is that the coal company was responsible for restoring the land to the original condition. They did not and what is left is reminiscent of a desert wasteland. I’m assuming that since it isn’t happening directly in your backyard, you could care less.

@Elinor Israel

As a kid growing up, I worked on local farms, both dairy, and beef cattle, and Ive got to ask where you get your information? Have you ever actually been on a farm, or do you get your information strictly from television? The Humane Society is hardly an unbiased source of information. These are the people who refused to allow me to adopt a dog because I mentioned that he would make a great hunting companion in the woods.

all the government can do is push on the balloon and cause the bubble to pop up elsewhere... the supposed slowing decline in the economy is fake growth.

The market would have really solved this problem 2 years ago except for the overt propping of the market by the Fed and Treasury. The new administration has now shoved the propping in high gear and has done nothing to deal with the underlying rot which set all of this off.

Until the Treasury, FDIC, SEC etc start to do their jobs, we will simply be delaying the reckoning... of course we will also cover the butts of those that responsible at the same time, which unfortunately might well be part of the motivation for these policies.

TOJ, don't you think you would feel like a second class citizen if the government told you that you couldn't get married?

"My point is that the coal company was responsible for restoring the land to the original condition. They did not and what is left is reminiscent of a desert wasteland. I’m assuming that since it isn’t happening directly in your backyard, you could care less."

Do not worry, nature is relentless...

Colleen Phillips

Wow are you off base here. When my father was going through Chemo I would frequently go over to his house "to have a beer" with him. Rarely did this act even involve beer but it did involve thought provoking conversation, every time.

@Amy Armstrong

"Please bring the games to Boston, where gay citizens are given equal rights."


I do agree with this line.

"TOJ, don't you think you would feel like a second class citizen if the government told you that you couldn't get married?"

yes you should be able to marry your horse too...

Beach Girl,

It's always easy to say how other people would feel, so I won't say that I wouldn't feel that way if I was on that side. However, marriage is a legal definition and the government sets the laws. To be honest, I really don't care over the issue and I'm not that opposed to calling it whatever people want to call it. The only thing I took exception to was that Ohio doesn't deserve the games because of a voter initiative that took place. Well, that and "second-class citizen" being defined by a singular issue.

@PacMan

'How do you know we would not have started a recovery 4 months ago without any intervention?'

This is an easy one...we all know that the other demand components were not spending 4 months ago...only the Federal government was/is in a posiiton to do so. So, if they had not spent money, and no one else was spending money, then no brakes on the decline would have happened. In short, absent federal intervention, we could have reasonably expected a longer and deeper recession.

And, lest someone jumps to conclusions, I am not saying the recession is over. I am saying that the economic situation seems to have stabilized. True growth won't occur until the other demand components increase spending.

@The Original Jason

I did not say that consumer spending would continuously decline. What I said was that there was only one demand component that could or would spend.

And yes, it is Keynesian economics, and , yes, not everyone agrees with it. But, Milton Friedman notwithstanding, it remains the most viable macro-economic theory to date. Bear in mind that the Federal spending cannot carry the entire aggregate demand ball under any circumstances, but in can provide enough 'pop', if applied in the correct places, to mitigate declines. And, depending on severity, such actions are not always needed. But in this case, they were.

As I stated, Federal spending is only a portion of total government spending. Please note that some of the current Federal money is being used to supplant declining state spending in areas where, guess what, demand has increased but no supply is available.

I remain convinced that absent Federal intervention in this recessionary cycle, we would still be searching in vain for even a glimpse of an end.

@ Paul48 - we don't know what would have occurred had Barry stayed out of the picture. Maybe we would have been the 'spenders'.

Elinor Israel
Akron

"I urge everyone to please support the Humane Society in its efforts to stop this cruelty."

Bleeding heart Elinor.

Contacting the Humane Society about watching how our food animals are treated would be as dumb as inviting the EPA over for a barbeque. The farmers do a good job keeping us all fed, let's leave them do their jobs, (which is a dirty one), and keep the prices of our food down as low as possible.

Blkswn, we're talking about people. TOJ, thank you for responding in an articulate manner. I don't always agree with you but I respect your point of view.

Bud Wiser
Gay Games....

Let's face it Bud Wiser, you'd get one heck of a ribbing from your friends if you got caught participating in the 100 meter purse throw from your drinking buddies. There's no way any self respecting heterosexual man would get caught passing the baton in the "Gay Games".

WHAT SORT OF MONEY ARE THESE HOMOGAMES GONNA BRING TO OHIO? I SAY SEND THEM PACKING.

@All: I'm really good at cut and pasting (post syncing) and pawning off others' commentary as my own. Here's a sample--

That's absolutely right... "and not disincentivizing negative behaviors through insurance premiums, as is prohibited in public plan proposals, sure doesn't advance this goal. I'm all for free choice, but if you are building a collectivist system, you lose your "rights," as it pertains to influencing health risk factors, and people had better pay for their respective choices."

I am all for bringing the Gay Games to Ohio, to be held in Akron and Cleveland. As others have pointed out, there is a thriving Gay community in the Akron and Cleveland region, as well as in Columbus. What the homophobes fail to realize is how much money gays contribute to the local economy. As much as NE Ohio is struggling now in economic terms, boycotting the Gay Games on account of prejudice would be like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

At any rate, in another 10 to 15 years, this will all be a moot point, and Karl Rove's 2004 political ploy to keep Bush and the GOP in power will have been overturned. More stodgy old people will be dead and gone, and the close-minded people who still can't tolerate equal rights for all people will be in the minority. Have a nice day.

How much do you want to bet that the person backing the US humane society's propaganda is a vegetarian? Maybe someone should start a group for the ethical treatment of plant and vegetables. After all they are living organisms too.
As for the fox in the hen house. The farming industry in Ohio is attempting to look into the problem and it is not enough for the US humane society. They want to come in and mandate how animals should be treated, with no real research to back their claims. Farmer have a vested interest in making sure their livestock is treated humanely. It is their livelihood.
The bottom line here is that PETA and the US humane society have one goal- they think we should all be vegetarians. One way to accomplish that goal would be to make the cost of animal products out of touch for most people.
If the US humane society gets their way you can count on food prices going up.

I don't know . . I see dairy cows out in the field all the time. Then they come in and line up to be milked. I don't think it would be good for the farmers to keep them penned up all the time.

JMO, I'm not a farmer.

TUJ,

{{chucklin'}} They say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. I would bother to speculate as to the author, but I'm pretty sure I can boil it down to Ace or Gary, to which I would ask:

What type of health insurance do you offer your employees?

TUJ,

Since you cited an example, show my the influence of that post.

Harley Quinn (Nancy dss), I could'nt have twisted it better myself!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!! Homophobic..Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!! Nice job there Harley, when people are homocritical and do not want us to shove our perversions down their throats, we come up with a new word to spin it into making them look like the bad guys. What a brilliant idea!!!!

Mad Hatter (ignorance kills) When they do not CHOOSE what we want them to CHOOSE then we should just CRAM IT DOWN THEIR CHILDREN'S THROATS!!! YES!!! I love it!! He who controls (brainwashes) the children, controls the future!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!!! You see, when people like you post on here, you liberal loonies show us, that when the chips are down, uh... civilized people, they'll eat each other. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!! Represent your master well my LIBERAL LOONIES, you will have your reward!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!

@ Elinor Israel - this is about small farms in ohio not gigantic factory farms. sadly you are very, very misinformed.

Yes hs_akronite,

The corporate farms will go along with this legislation because it will kill off the small farmer who can not afford to conform with the bureaucratic nonsense. We have seen this played out many times before in various industries.

indy,

"The Real Joker is a real racist."

hehe, his satire is really pretty right on... I think this reflects more on you then him.

you are exactly right blkswan! this is in no way going to put an end to factory farming. it's just going to increase our dependence on it when small farmers can't afford to operate. give them a break already for pete's sakes!

@ Swan, You're entitled to your opinion. My comment was based on his avatar, not the satire, which I find pretty funny.

My earlier comment didn't post, but there's horse next door who saw your earlier post. Wondered if you were available.

"a" horse. Just one. But, I'll let you know if there's additional interest.

(sigh) why can't Akron be more gay, thus more deserving.

his avatar is racist? this should be good.

TOJ writes:
"I'm all for free choice, but if you are building a collectivist system, you lose your "rights," as it pertains to influencing health risk factors, and people had better pay for their respective choices."

Dont' worry, people will pay - just not the people making the choices.

@ swan. first, lets talk about you and the horse.

Are you referring to the "risky business of drilling?"

@Beach Girl
The government can't tell you you can't get married. Go ahead. Millions of 4 year olds get "married" every year. They just aren't marriages that are recognized by law because you have to be able to procreate to be called married, and as yet, most 4 year olds can't make babies.

see... horses can procreate

sorry swan. they wouldn't permit my witty response.

@ joker. you're twisting something, that's for certain.

I am sorry Hush (independent) for confusing you with Killer Croc. I just got a new picture of me and I know that you will love this one better!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!!! If you keep on with your insubordination, I will become very sad and cry on Batzarro's shoulder. Boo Hoo!!!! Represent your master well my LIBERAL LOONIES, you will have your reward!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!!

Wilbur F. Peters
Cuyahoga Falls
Oh Wilburrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........I have a question for you. In WWI and especially WWII,prime,prized targets for submarines and really,any other ship with guns,were oil tankers. Every nation understood that oil kept the military machine moving. And since the ships hugged the shore for protection millions of barrels of oil coated the shorelines of Europe for years.
The question. Actually,a couple. How did Europe manage to survive without Greenpeace running around in their little boats? Do you think a U-Boat would have run away in fear? Do you think the 'Beautiful People", you know, Hollywood, step in oily goop when they vacation in the south of France?
Where'd it all go Wilbur,where?