Overzealous and money grabbing govt. officials.

~ I WONDER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYBODY LIT-UP A CIG,IN A BAR , AT THE SAMETIME~??

almost every bar that i`ve been in lately you can smoke bar owners don`t care about the fines........

What is overzealous about government officials doing their job? They have a responsibility to comply and enforce the law and that is what they are doing. if don't like the law elect officials who will change it or put it on the ballot. That is how democracy should work. If everyone in a bar i was in lit up, I'd leave. The ban on smoking imo was a fantastic and overdue.

AliveInKent, let me know what bar you go to and I'll make sure I light one up while you are there. The smoking ban is ridiculous and you and everyone else knows it. Where is the first place government looks to when they want to tax something? They hit smokers. Yet they take away the right to smoke. They only enforce the laws when they can make more money.

If this is how they choose to invest their time and our money, I don't want to hear a word ever again from the state of Ohio where budgets are concerned. Pursuing bars for a law that never should've been shoved down our throats in the first place is NOT the way to get votes.

I am curious to know what the actual violations were and why the fines ended up as high as they did. Continued penalties for defying the law?

I am not a smoker and I voted against the smoking ban. I agree that I am much happier going into a bar without smoke but I believe fully that it is a business owners right to decide what is best for their business. Bar owners pay enough in taxes solely related to their liquor license to account for that.

Obviously these bars believe that they are doing what their customers want.

~ I WONDER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYBODY LIT-UP A CIG,IN A BAR , AT THE SAMETIME~??



The same thing as if everyone farted.....it would stink!

Wahhhhh,

I see the smokers, oops I mean whiners, are still unhappy that they can't have their way.

Nothing was shoved down anybody's throat, the people voted and the law is in affect. Now it is being enforced.

But some of you think the business owner should be able to do anything they want, because their customers want it. Some customers would probably like prostitution and drugs available at their local bar, should that be allowed?

Topsarge is just another wannabe bully who's going to blow smoke in our faces. Yep, you're exactly the people that caused this kind of ban to be passed. Blatant disregard for others. You have no right to smoke in a public place and pollute my air. No more than I have a right to urinate on you.

@ topsarge..the ones I go to, you'd get kicked out, i am pretty sure as I have never seen people in them breaking the law. it is funny that on this ban people are all for breaking it, yet in so many other comments, people are all about executing the criminals, locking them up...probably just different people posting in this article, but i do find it interesting...

O poor bar owners...woe is them..They have the easiest item in the world to sell that is legal. If they can't make money without breaking the law then they don't know how to make money. That they laugh at the fines and don't care about them should show you how much $$$ the are making.

The law is for the protection of the workers of the bar. You can say it is their choice to work there but what sort of choices does anyone have as to where to work when unemployment is around 10%. Plus if I can make 2X as much at a bar, albeit I have to subject myself to smoke (if there wasn't a ban) what sort of choice is that. Ask yourself would you rather make $100 or $200 for one night work.

@ Steve...Couldn't of said it better.

To those mad about being taxed for your cigarettes, you cost everyone more in healthcare. If you want to have a separate healthcare system just for smokers and not a dime of my hard earned money goes towards your heatlhcare, and if you smoke and don't die ealry from an accident, you wil cost me and all others who pay into healthcare and pays taxes more money..That is why it is only fair and equitable to tax you for you habit, because your habit costs us who don't have your habit money.

Highland Square: get ready. The payoffs only can stave off the inevitable so long.

??UrbanRenaissace...what are you trying to say?

((chucklin')) Well, the only thing my non-smokin' bretheren got right, was that we have a law and it was broken.

As for any of their comments about what the rights of a business owner should have, I'd suggest they pony up and open one, and then see how good life is for them. Chances are they'd be broke before they started.

steve: Some customers would probably like prostitution and drugs available at their local bar, should that be allowed?

well then either make smoking illegal as the things you sited are or allow the establishments, workers, owners and customers to make the choices. the only reason they don't make tobacco products illegal is because they tax them so heavily.

betamax..i am a small business owner and i do know how this state makes tons of red tape for me..but i also assure you that alcohol is not difficult to turn a profit on and people who run a bar and cannot either do not have a good location or probably are very deficient in running a business.

debbinana, they did make it illegal to smoke cigarettes in public places...it would be illegal for me to have sex in a public place but it is legal for me to do so in the privacy of my own home, just like it is legal for me or you to smoke tobacco in the privacy of a private home, but illegal for you do to so in a public place like a bar or a municipal building.

Why do smokers think they have some undeniable right to force everyone else to breathe their chemicals? If I walked around blowing asbestos in everyone's face, I'd be arrested, and I'd be LUCKY to get off with just a $28,000 fine.

The fact is, tobacco smoke is a toxin and a public health hazard, and NO other toxin has the legal protections that tobacco smoke does. When the issue was put to the voters of Ohio, 72 of our 88 counties voted in favor of the ban, and 58% of the population supported it.

Smokers, do whatever you want in the privacy of your own home. When you're out in public, keep your chemicals to yourself.

Mayor Donny boys behind all this.

andy..did the mayor pick on you in highschool or something...seems you like going article to article blaming the mayor...

Take a look at the number of complaints called into the tip-line versus the number of fines issued and you will quickly see how completely ineffective this law is. Most complaints are never even investigated.

the big l...i am not at all surprised..i wonder why these guys were singled out..be it just repeated complaints or something more sinister..where do you find what places have reported violations?

@Crime of the Century, how was a smoking ban shoved down our throats? It was voted on.

Alive in Kent - It seems you like to rant, but make little sense. In your first rant, you said it could go on the ballot and be voted on. Apparantly, you don't recall that it was, and that they made the rules DIFFERENT than the ballot language. We voted, but not for what was enacted.

Secondly, health care costs from tobacco use pale in comparison to the costs incurred from alcohol (drunk driving accident, domestic abuse, unprovoked assaults), and legal and illegal drug use.

Lastly, anytime the govenment wants more money, they immediately hit tobacco users. Remember - they ADDED tax to cover cost health care for poor children.... Stop the poor from having children and the taxes wont be necessary.

Tobacco helped build this country. . .Smoke 'Em if you got 'em. .Anywhere. .Anytyme. . .

Heck, the Sin Tax helped build The Jake, err, Regressive, err, Progressive Field. . .Now you can't even burn one there. . Light Up, or Leave Me Alone. . .

RENEGADE 1222- Why don't you go POSE some where or get another tattoo and keep your stupid mouth shut. Or is this another way for you to POSE. You look like a typical uneducated bar lizard Harley Clown trying to be cool.

The smart owners adapted and created outdoor smoking areas; the stupid ones suffer through fines and/or diminished revenue and will eventually go the way of the Chevy Vega. Darwin was a mad scientist/philosopher/ poet/warrior/priest. America: love it or move to Hawaii. You gotta fight...for your right...to make old people think that we want them to kill themselves. Stupid pills! On the house!

Thank you wc. I feel the same way. Going to comedy clubs have been so much more pleasant since the smoking ban. Second hand smoke stinks and makes me physically ill. Sure, smoke em if you've got em, but not around me please. I wouldn't pass gas around you!

I don't know what the heck is up with the post editor...Banning smoking in a bar is like banning dancing at a dance hall. People who sit and drink alcohol and don't smoke for health reasons...I must laugh...loudly

To those mad about being taxed for your cigarettes, you cost everyone more in healthcare. If you want to have a separate healthcare system just for smokers and not a dime of my hard earned money goes towards your heatlhcare, and if you smoke and don't die ealry from an accident, you wil cost me and all others who pay into healthcare and pays taxes more money..That is why it is only fair and equitable to tax you for you habit, because your habit costs us who don't have your habit money.

This is proof of sheer ignorance. I have a rather large family. Out of all of my family members, I am the only smoker. Out of all of my family members, I am the ONLY ONE who does not even use my health benefits. I am not on any medications. I rarely get sick...and when I do, I don't go running to the doctor. I do not have any health issues.

However, my mother has cancer, heart disease, and blood pressure problems. My father is diabetic, has nephritis, and blood pressure issues as well. My aunts and uncles all have heart problems, blood pressure, vertigo. I watch my family receive medical bills (after insurance has paid their share) upwards of $2,000 each year. Not to mention all of the money they have to spend on medications.

In the past two years that I have had my medical benefits, I have not made even ONE claim. No doctor visits, no emergency visits, no prescriptions of any kind. To insinuate that the rising cost of your health insurance is all due to the "smokers" is completely ignorant. There are more non smokers than smokers. My family has used up at least $5 million dollars in healthcare over the years. Did I mention that my non-smoker cousin had a million dollar baby who was born 3 months premature and had major health issues for years????!!!! Or my uncle who has had 3 kidney transplants and a pancreas transplant due to his juvenile diabetes. Face the truth, just because you don't smoke doesn't mean you are healthy!!!

Oh yeah...Steve...you are the ones who who have done all the whining.

@Andy: You've said that in a few posts today. Are you stupid? What does the mayor of Akron have to do with this?

It's the law, and it was voted on by the people. If you can't live without a cigarette, smoke outside.

Steve and AliveinKent are the same person. I don't smoke, but I also don't act like I'm King*hit like those two do. To each their own.

Reference crybaby steve,ole oops boy if you need to urinate,should try the mens room, Im a non smoker however smokers have the right to smoke if they want to.

@Logial American, what is different from the ballot we voted and the law as it stands now?

It's not hard to smoke outside or at home. I enjoy going out more with the smoking laws in effect.

@Logial American, where is your data showing that smoking healthcare costs "pale" in comparison.

I did a quick Google search and the first two things I found showed just the opposite.

Here is an Australian study that showed alcohol accounted for 56% of the costs when you look at smoking, alcohol, and drugs. http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23509401-662,00.html

Here is a study in Minnesota that showed smoking is 1.5 times that of drinking.

Smoking bans should be entirely up to the establishment, not the government.....now if uncle gold diggin sam wants to pay their bills, that is different.

Topsarge:

It wasn't the "government" that imposed the smoking ban. It was your next door neighbors who got enough signatures to get the issue on the ballot. As is the case in a democracy, you had the privilage and right to cast your vote "for" or "against" issue 5. I voted. I hope you did too and if you did, you have every right to voice your opinion if you didn't like the outcome. If you feel the ban is unfair in any way, you can gather signatures to get it on the ballot AGAIN.

Alive in kent-nice avatar you have-hypocritical to say the least-funny-Zappa was a heavy smoker.

Do you carry auto insurance? Hope you do,its a law too.

2-Kids=do you wear purfume? I am allergic.wanna pay for my meal next time I have to leave due to YOUR STENCH ?

People open businesses and should decide what they want to cater to, not the government. If we have to get up and exit a bar to smoke, big deal.

Some of the hippies on here don't realize that there are 16 million illegal aliens in America that are choking health care. Hell, a doctor could treat the real Juan Valdez and not even realize he stitched up a celebrity.

Should we allow gastric bypass to be covered by insurance because 2/3 of Americans are either overweight or obese?

Lest we forget there are folks on permanent welfare and SSI who suck off the system, too. It is what it is.

Do we then drug test and mandate employment for public assistance?

The sin taxes use up cash and that cash has built a seat for many of you hippies to go watch sports. And since we don't light up in the seat in front of you, shut your mouth and quit whining. If you break the law and get caught smoking at your bar, you deal with it. More important problems in USA, so whine about real issues. This is minimal. Take your Xanax and turn off the screen.

Next the brown shirts.....then the hit squads....

Let's go after the smokers, that's more important than spending time and money on gangs, drugs, and rapes.

The smoking ban was misrepresented on the ballet. It was not complete. Had I known that the government was going to be permitted to dictate to private business and especially private clubs (ie.VFW) I would have never voted for it.

Public business such as department stores, government buildings yes; privately owned (not chains) businesses no. If you don't want to inhale second hand smoke, don't patronize "privately owned" establishments who should, by law be permitted to make the choice themselves. The smoking ban is just another example of government overstepping it's boundaries. Government does not have a legal right to interfere with private business, especially when that business is providing a service or product that is in demand.

If a business chooses to remain a smoking establishment and they lose business because of it then they will change their policy. If an establishment loses business because they are forced by the government to become a non-smoking establishment when their customer base is predominately smokers that is a violation of the owners right to conduct a profitable business.

It cracks me up, when Children's Hospital enacted their smoking ban everyone said, "if you don't want to stop smoking then don't apply for a job at Children's Hospital". Well what is the difference? If you don't want to inhale second hand smoke or smell cigarette smoke while you're eating or just drinking...GO TO A NON-SMOKING ESTABLISHMENT instead of forcing your will on the owner and those who choose to smoke! At least, until cigarette smoking is deemed illegal in this country!

It's been a while since I've been to any bars, but the ones I've been to don't give a sh*t about who smokes in the bar, and who doesn't.

It's time people started sticking up for the businesses who are struggling to keep their doors open because of 1) fraudulent ballot language and 2) LIES told by the ACS that smokefree policies don't harm business. That's a boldface LIE. Big pHARMa is the only one who profits from the laws they BOUGHT to sell their nicotine REPLACEMENT products. The ACS should be outraged more about the harm Nicorette (oral cancer) and Nicoderm (98.4% failure rate) cause. All they do is keep pressuring the government to keep supplying more "free" patches and gum because they owe their sponsor who paid for the bans.

The Health Dept's been saying "the vast majority of businesses comply with the law."

As usual, the Antismokers play tricks with words. "Businesses" says nothing about how bars are complying. 5 years ago bars were studied in the very heart of Antismokerdom - California - and almost 50% were in violation. My guess is that the "vast majority" of Ohio BARS are as well.

Remember: it's always in the interest of the State to promote the belief that all is orderly and under control. If citizens think that everyone ELSE is following the rules then they're more likely to follow the rules themselves.

Read Jacob Grier's May 27th column and aftercomments to see how the lies work. You'll see how researchers grab million dollar grants by promising the "right" results before even doing the research:

http://www.jacobgrier.com/blog/archives/2210.html

They tell the same sort of lies about the health effects of secondhand smoke that they do about the economics of bans: that's how they get their grants.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Anttismokers' Brains"

"@Logial American, what is different from the ballot we voted and the law as it stands now?"

Here's the difference. Where are the exemptions for private clubs and family owned businesses? Had the dishonest ACS listed 8 words "not open to the public" and "with no employees" people would have understood that what they were voting for was not at all what they got.

Here's a difference. Did you know the Department of Health says smoking a cigarette is NOT a violation of the law? That's right. I've got it in writing. Well, if it's NOT against the law, isn't a business owner breaking the law by telling them to put it out? You can't have it both ways. But they set it up this way for the businesses to fail and to force the business owner to WORK for the Department of Health. If you smoking isn't a violation of the law, isn't telling you to put it out a conflicting law? These people wrote their own law that is NOT the intent of the law. It's because the Boards of Health don't want to put their employees in harm's way but it's ok to put a little 5' female bartender? The ONLY way a smoker can be fined (which not ONE has been fined) is for the smoker to call the 800 SNITCH line and say "I couldn't get Joe Smith to put out his cigarette". But guess what? All the business owner did was report THEMSELVES for not being able to get Joe Smith to put the cigarette out.

This whole thing is a sham. And businesses like MINE are strugglinng to keep their doors open. It's funny. People are complaining over the SWCS levy that people who live in apartments shouldn't get to vote on property tax issues because the apartment dwellers don't pay property taxes. They're right. How do voters get to vote on a ban that hurts OUR businesses? They don't have a financial interest in our businesses. They don't pay the bills. HECK THEY NEVER CAME IN OUR BAR and they STILL DON'T.

Excuse me. I meant the OWNER has to call the 1-800-SNITCH line.

@holdyourhorses, what wording on the ballot was not followed?

@ichoosefreedom, what wording on the ballot was not followed?

wcwc, you say you'd be arrested if you were "blowing asbestos" into the air, but you don't seem to realize that that is EXACTLY what happens in shopping malls that have fountains. Most water sources have asbestos fibers in them and the government says they're perfectly safe at levels of up to 10 nanograms/gram. The water droplets flung into the air and into your face at malls contain thousands or even millions of nanograms of asbestos.

But you're still perfectly safe because the quantities are so low, and the same thing is true in any decently ventilated bar, restaurant, or mall where people are smoking. The only difference is you don't have a multi-billion dollar industry populated by fanatics trying to terrorize everybody about the asbestos from fountains.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"

Logical American: Voters approved the indoor smoking ban in November 2006. Personally, I voted against it as I thought that it was an unnecessary limit on freedom and that if anti-smokers were that concerned about non-smoking, then private industry would create smoke free bars and restaurants, that it would reduce sin-tax revenue, and that because we do not have single-payer health care, smoking doesn't cost ME more money.

That said, it is now the law in Ohio. It wasn't passed in the night, it wasn't shoved down anyone's throat. It was proposed, lobbied for and against, and even conglomerated tobacco couldn't beat it. The majority of Ohioans want the law.


Additionally though, your comparison to alcohol is simply wrong. Smoking is one of the leading risk factors for cardiovascular problems including strokes, peripheral arterial disease, heart attacks, atrial fibrillation, aortic aneurysm, etc. Additionally, your risk for cancers such as esophageal, mouth, and lung rise substantially. About the only thing worse that you can do to your body is to be Obese. Drunk crashes, fights, etc.

Finally, what few smokers like to factor in is the lost productivity of their smoke breaks. The average smoker I know at work takes a break once per hour, has a 2 minute walk to their car (the building has a no-smoking policy in and near), right around a minute and a half to three minutes, depending on whether they rush or not and two minutes back. So the average smoker at work wastes a little over 10,000 minutes per year of their employers time or around 175 hours, or at $15 per hour, $2600 in wasted wages as well as 175 hours worth of lost revenue.

Yeah, smoking is harmful, you have the right to smoke, and the majority has granted a superseding right not to have to inhale second hand smoke. Get over it.

Ok Ok enuff bout the smoking ban on bars; I gave up my bar stool some time ago, quit smoking bout 10yrs ago, but I am not opposed to others smoking anywhere, I know how to leave ppl.

I don't know the trama of tryin' to quit smoking but had it not been for gettin sick and being on medication for months I would still be smoking! While healing, I forgot I smoked and when I got well I gave an honest effort of not lighting up again....others are not like me and I respect that, so quit complaining bout smokers cause alot of non-smokers are getting cancer... then doctors came up with 2nd hand smoke. LOL!

All they have to do is designate their bar as a "club" to the state. The "club" could be a smoker's club, if that is what they want. Patrons have the option to become members for one dollar.
THAT is how to get around the law. It works in Florida.

DID "WE THE PEOPLE" VOTE FOR THIS??? ...EITHER LEARN TO LOVE IT OR.....VOTE IT OUT!

While I disagreed with the smoking ban, I did quit smoking. However, AFTER I quit, I became quite ill and ended up in the hospital many times for other health problems.
While I smoked, the only health problem I had was chronic bronchitis and never went to the hospital.
Would I have had those other health problems if I had continued to smoke? I don't know, I just know what happened to me.

I dont smoke but I feel a person should not have the govt controling how a person runs their business,if I go somewhere and the smoke is bad I leave. people come from out of state they dont believe the non smoking law

Laws like this are why I stay home or go to friends places to hang out and enjoy ourselves. We can smoke, drink, and not be around the bar drama. Life is good!

Bars with good food and good bands have not lost ONE customer because of the ban. In fact most say they have GAINED patronage. Those dumb corner bars full of mullet wearing losers are the ones this law hurts, thus they flaunt it.

As a country we started losing our greatness when we stopped tolerating each other and started trying to impose our beliefs on others. Then we lost our faith in our leaders because we know without a doubt that they pocket money from special interest groups and don't actually represent their constituents as much as they do these groups. We allow this to happen; why, because we are so divided over small BS that we can't get enough folks banded together to vote these crooks out. This anti-smoking is the worse type of law around, it takes the old nosey bitties of the country and makes them feel empowered, when what should be said to them, "If you don't want to be in a place were smokers hang out, don't go there." Here's an example of what I mean by tolerating others...

I was at a stop sign about a month ago and looked at the rear view mirror and noticed the guy behind me tipping a beer.
I watch a girl at a red light texting and she was still texting when the light turned green.
My neighbor shot and killed a groundhog that was in his garden.
Everyone in the passing lane on 77 north yesterday was doing 80 mph, so I joined in.

Everyone of these points so how you should be tolerant of others and not be so much into imposing your will on them.

Don't pay the fine!!! Stay open and trow the cig butts in Cordray's front yard.
I don't even smoke!!!! Yet i can reconize tax cheats and fools!!!!

Lou Szer: I agree...it's the dives that are hurting (and rebelling) over this law. I know of a few places around Akron who regularly violate this ban. Needless to say, these are places I don't even think about going to, unless I am good with a knife, and I can deal with the local neighborhood clientele....

I go to bars to drink, not to smoke. And before someone says well drinking often leads to smoking, drinking also often leads to sex, and I sure as heck don't want to see that! Especially with the types of people I usually see in bars!

Exactly why I voted for the ban back in 2006. If you want to smoke, keep your smelly, carcinogenic air to yourself and take it outside....just my views....

I'm a non smoker, but Bars and clubs should allow smoking it's ruining their business and more are closing because of it. This was at one time a freedom of choice Country, but more and more freedom is being taken from us. I am a Veteran
and love our country, but is it our country anymore? Politics and Big Money Business run the
Country. We need to speak up and take action to get
The US back in the hands of Americans.

The law would have never been passed if not for stupid smokers with no regard no anyone else.

It is that simple. Speed limits on vehicles only came about because people had no regard for others, as such, limits were created. I am sure that those that felt that they have the right to go as fast as they wanted felt that their freedom's were being stripped away.

As silly as it sounds, think about that? Laws are normally created because people do not use common sense. For example, you can have thirty people in a room, none are smoking, yet a smoker feels that he or she has every right to light one up, with no regard for the rest of the people. What about everyone else who now has to deal with someone's addiction.

Smoking is not a right and if you think it is, you need to rethink what rights are.

Never understood this,,,a person(or company) puts up money to remodel building that may stand vacant,,pays fees for hookups(with city and state/federal taxes included) to get started,,hopefully pays taxes on said property,,and for all this they get told how to run their business,,,i dont smoke,,and would never attend a place that allowed it,,but do respect the owners right to run his business to a group of clientle as he sees fit...AS LONG as it is understood that it is NOT a smoke free facility,,,,GEEZ what have we become?

Go to the bars in mogadore they don't care if you smoke. they never fine the small town bars

Te main problem here is that a law was passed that puts the enforcement on business owners. They are going to tell their customers to put it out or get out, what happens if the customer does not comply?

and AliveInKent

Smokers may cost he system more in the short run but new study's have shown that for every cigarette smoked it saves $1,000 in future health care costs.

They broke the law, plain and simple. Regardless of whether the law is fair, it's in place and if you don't comply, you pay.

Get the smokers...I'm tired of smelling like smoke and I 100% back any fines, lawsuits or whatever means are necessary. You hypocrites whine about your rights to smoke....well what about our rights to go out and enjoy a night without YOUR smoke infringing on me??? Not to mention the negative externalities involved with smoking...some of my taxes go towards health care cost that can be directly attributed to smoking. Smokers, get over yourselves!

The Health Dept's been saying "the vast majority of businesses comply with the law."

As usual, the Antismokers play tricks with words. "Businesses" says nothing about how bars are complying. 5 years ago bars were studied in the very heart of Antismokerdom - California - and almost 50% were in violation. My guess is that the "vast majority" of Ohio BARS are as well.

Remember: it's always in the interest of the State to promote the belief that all is orderly and under control. If citizens think that everyone ELSE is following the rules then they're more likely to follow the rules themselves.

Read Jacob Grier's May 27th column and aftercomments to see how the lies work. You'll see how researchers grab million dollar grants by promising the "right" results before even doing the research:

http://www.jacobgrier.com/blog/archives/2210.html

They tell the same sort of lies about the health effects of secondhand smoke that they do about the economics of bans: that's how they get their grants.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"

Apologies for the double post. :/ I didn't see it was up and thought it might have been lost when my computer crashed yesterday.

- MJM

Reading this thread, it's clear that we're witnessing the rise of the metrosexual.

Amusing :-)

This would be 1 poor *ss state if everyone quit smoking and drinking...the gov would go bankrupt in a heartbeat.

I'm gonna go drink me a 40oz smoke a pack, and chill wit my Asian girlie friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, lets get real now. Bars...come on! They should not of enforced this law on them. How many of you non smokers are drinkers? What if they banned alcohol? I smoke, not drink. So does that mean its ok if i vote for a law that bans drinking? NO! People can die from smoking yes, BUT..you will far more likely die from drinking before smoking. This law should not have happened.

nisgrl75 and you probably weigh 200 lb's at 5'3" - how about my insurance gets hit for when you are eating a Supersize BigMac meal every day when I am eating a salad, packed myself, every day at 5'9" and 155 - killing myself it seems to remain hot. Oh after 2 marines and a super star baseball player who is 9. Shove all that down your throat. I will go out for my 4 or 5 a day and laugh at your size 28 azzz....

@Fix_It_Already says "The main problem here is that a law was passed that puts the enforcement on business owners. They are going to tell their customers to put it out or get out, what happens if the customer does not comply?"

It is no different than all the other laws like serving to minors, customers showing identification, no shirt, no shoes, etc. You do like you do any time a person does not comply, you call the police. There is nothing new here.

@ls45152, first you can vote on anything you want as long as you get it to the polls. So if it gets to the polls a ban on alcohol, it is your right to vote how ever you want.

Where is your proof that "you will far more likely die from drinking before smoking"?

@gain some......look around you....I know more people dying from liver problems than breathing problems.....well in akron anyway

I voted against issue 5. We lost, now no smoking cigarettes in public places. Then i learned about VCIGNATURE ELECTRONIC CIGARETTES. No smoking ban, No second Hand, Still in your hand. www.vcignature.com

@htlong, when did the observation of a single person become scientific proof the alcohol kills more than smoking?

I know no one with liver problems, but several people with smoking related illnesses that will kill them. But I would not go out on a limb and say smoking is more dangerous as you have.

AliveinKent... of course no laws are broken in Kent bars! HA HA HA HA. The smoking ban may not be broken, but there are plenty of other legal issues in Kent Bars, try again.

I smoke, and my take on the matter is this: establishment where there will be a mixed age group of people, including those who are not old enough to smoke, should ban smoking. I'm ok with not smoking in dining establishments because little ones didn't decide to go out to dinner based on their smoking or not. HOWEVER, if an establishment is for people 18 years old, it really ought to be up to the owners if they permit smoking or ban it. If the customer base has the ability to choose to smoke than the ownership should have the ability to choose to cater to them. With that evolution, some bars, clubs, dancehalls etc. would remain open for smokers and word would travel, while others would remain smoke free.

It is my CHOICE to smoke and should be an employers CHOICE to allow or ban smoking.

Just another thought... how many of the incidents that have occured outside bars and the likely lately have been escalated due to the crowd of people gathered outside so they could smoke without offending the non smokers or potentially costing the bar owners money in fines?

Like I said earlier..Banning smoking in bars is like banning dancing in dance halls. If you don't like dancing why go where they dance? Annnnd...if you do go where they dance are you going to whine about it and then go and have a law passed to ban dancing? Bar owners should have the freedom to choose smoking or no smoking. It's their property. I wish they would ban whining who who's.

@ls45152 and @htlong, the numbers do not support your stance that alcohol kills more than cigarettes.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5644a2.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5425a1.htm
"Cigarette smoking remains the leading preventable cause of disease and death in the United States, resulting in approximately 438,000 deaths annually."

@ls45152 and @htlong, the numbers do not support your stance that alcohol kills more than cigarettes.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5644a2.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5425a1.htm
"Cigarette smoking remains the leading preventable cause of disease and death in the United States, resulting in approximately 438,000 deaths annually."

Your articles look at death and disease, what about injuries not related to disease or dying? what about accidents, assualts, mental health treatment? GSMR are those included in the CDCs studies?

What about the damage an alcoholic parent does on an emotional level to their children and the years of therapy that often occur when dad (or mom) drinks and beats up mom(or dad) while the little ones watch and then the little ones end up with mental health issues?

What about the drink driver who maims but does not kill someone in an accident? Is the cost of long term hospitalization, modifications to a home if the injured is wheelchair bound and the years of physical therapy and or home health care included in those totals?

Both of the above are examples of non fatal or 'disease' related circumstances where the effects of alcohol can be quite costly in the long run...

Nice to go into smoke-free bars. Thanks, citizens of Ohio.

@Grad Student, the CDC studies I have seen of alcohol do include DUI deaths, non-disease related DEATH, etc.

Remember the original poster comments were about alcohol versus smoking death, not related illnesses that do not result in death.

I walk my dogs late at night and am amazed by the amount of people I see standing on their porch or steps smoking that last cig of the day. I asume they have children and don't want them breathing second hand smoke which is admirable. I used to smoke for 20 years and quit 6-8 years ago but I can't even count the times I smoked around my son. He smoked for a few years, but quit mainly for economic reasons. I hope my smoking didn't cause him to start. I still think a bar owner should decide if they want smoking. Just create smoking and non-smoking areas to accomodate both camps. The less govt. the better. Most of our problems can probably be traced to some form of government intrusion into our lives. I'll bet at least 30% of govt. people could be eliminated and things wouldn't miss a beat. For the people that just can't wait for their nicotine fix try using snus. They've been used in Europe for years, small pouches of tobacco put between your lip and cheek. It will give you your nicotine, it is not harmless but probably better than smoking for your nicotine.

Minna Wade wrote...nice to go into smoke-free bars. Thanks, citizens of Ohio.

It's nice you have a choice now...or no a mandate enforcing "your" choice. This shouldn't have to come down to a law being passed to inflict your views on people who prefer bars where they can light up a cigarette and smoke it. It could be resolved with a sign that states smoking allowed, or no smoking allowed. Those who do not want to be at either establishment need not enter. That is freedom of choice and a true America.

I live in Germany where smoking is an important part or life. Cigarette machines every where. The same thing is happening here as in the States, well most of Europe is banning smoking. There are two sides to every story the smokers who feel they have the right to smoke whenever, where ever they want and if you don't like it than you can always leave. Where as the non-smokers don't want to breathe in the posionous fumes from the cigarettes. Whether you like it or not its the law. You don't like the law do something to get it changed to sit there cry moan and groan, use your god given right to vote and make a change. It seems like to day nobody has respect for there neighbors let alone themselves. If you want to smoke im all for it by all means smoke but at least have the common courtesy to not push it on others who prefer not to enjoy your smoke with you. Studies show that second hand smoke is just as dangerous as inhaling. Not only are you affecting your health and life but those around you.

Prison time instead of fines. That will solve the problem

I am an ex-smoker, and cant stand the smell of cigarette smoke, but one thing I Cant stand even more is the smell of big government ordering people to ban smoking in the establishment they own. I quit going to bars years ago because I couldnt stand the smoke. I always felt there was a nich for some entrepeneur to open a smoke fee bar. For me to voluntarily walk into a bar and demand that everyone else stop smoking to appease me would be incredibly selfish and self centered. If you dont liek smoke, dont go into a place where smoking will occur. Duh!

GSMR: the first article relates only to "preventable death and chronic illnesses" and emphasizes COPD related ilnesses, heart disease and stroke

the second article is s different time frame and almost identical information, though slightly more demographic break down.

You take care to remind me that the original posts were on death rates and provide information that has numbers where rates of illness are combined with death rates. You seem to be providing information skewed to your POV.

Now, you want to relate these two studies to ones on alcohol impact to an individuals health. However, you provide no information on that. If you want to back up a claim then back up both sides of it.

Mind you, I'm not saying it is the healthiest thing on the planet to light up, but if you want to base arguments in facts, make sure the facts accuratly support your statements.

@RittmanInsider

Spot on.

Whatever happened to "Choice"?

ohio is commited to making money however they can.

cigs. are bad for you, but thats someone elses choice. walking into starbucks and getting two extra shots of speed in your coffee not good for you either.

RittmanInsider...nice

topsarge said:

"Where is the first place government looks to when they want to tax something? They hit smokers."

I know. It's awesome, isn't it? (I'm serious.)