you don't need a permit to carry a unconcealed gun in Ohio this is the way to go let the crooks know they will be shot before they even try to start something.

Acually Michael G, this is NOT the way to let the crooks know anything! However, it IS a great way to induce panic, as well as have the potential to be labeled as "brandishing". Get a CCW. Don't let the thugs see an open-carry, then move on to some other victim. Let 'em wonder....."is he / she carrying or not?"

More than 16,000 permits for concealed handguns were issued statewide in the first three months of this year — more than double the number approved in the first quarter of last year.

***************************************************



Yea...No kidding!


One wonders if this has anything to do with the new Socialist Administration we now have in office.


Our Closet Muslim believes Iran should have atomic energy that we know will be used to produce NUKES.


Our Closet Muslim wants Israel to give up land needed for their own defense in order to form a new state that will belong to some of the very people who want to wipe Israel off the face of the map.


Our Closet Muslim is reaching out to his Muslim buddies and has even declared that the United States is now a Muslim country.


And we can't figure out why so many people are now packin heat! What a hoot!


Yes...We are getting our 'CHANGE' however, after Obama gets done destroying this country we'll find little 'HOPE'

Notice that Clevenger is a law enforcement officer. Even the police know we cannot be every where to protect the citizens.

The CCW in Ohio will be a definit crime prevention plus.

Since the Mayor of Akron and Sommerville seem to be pro crime and anti police citizens right to bear arms will protect us in the streets from the far left idealology of our idiot politicians.

Despite what you may hear or read in the press, there still is an ongoing battle over gun control and the public does have to be concerned.

A recent US Appeals Court in Chicago ruled that cities and states do not have to abide by the Second Admendment in providing the rights of citizens in their jurisdictions to keep and bear arms. This decision is now being appealed to the US Supreme Court by the NRA, as it conflicts with the Supreme Court's decision of last year (Heller v. Washington DC), where the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Admendment does allow for an individual right to keep and bear arms. With a new Supreme Court judge soon to be picked, the majority rule in that court could swing the other way.

Those of us who want to protect our Constitutional rights should support the NRA's movement by joining the NRA. This organization of over 4 million individual gun owners is the only group willing to fight for the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

Here's the problem: Is the average Joe, adrenaline pumping and drawing his concealed weapon, skilled and trained enough to evaluate a situation, make a clean shot, and realize that all that drywall behind the "bad guy" won't stop a bullet?

Having been trained in urban tactical ops, it astounds me that people think it's as simple as pull a gun and shoot.

Here's the other problem: There's no REAL gun debate. It's either NRA psychos spouting anecdotal evidence or anti-gun ideologues. There's no one in-between saying, "Here's the reality, here's the numbers, let's make decisions based on sound research and data."

I mean, when's the last time YOU read independent, third-party research on guns and gun crime in America? My guess--never.

And you think road rage is bad? Give them a gun and there will be mass murders!! Only men would come up with this stupid idea!

whats sad:is i cant defend myself at all i am a 47 yr old man,whos is labeled disabled because i had a couple strokes and paralyzed on my right side,i can use my left though.so when im in my wheelchair and someone messes with me which they have,i cant defend myself because they say im not fit to carry.hmmmmmmm what am i suppose to do but carry anyway.my 22 baretta conceals very well,

So, are we seeing an increase in the number of people with concealed carry permits actually shooting people? Are we seeing an increase in crime amongst the demographic that is getting concealed carry permits? Where does the rubber meet the road -- are all these concealed weapons being used for anything or are they just providing peace of mind to those who carry them?

If you think Obama is taking your guns and ammo away, you are a whack job like the guy who shot up all the police in pittsburgh a couple months ago.

Kudos to those who are going out and arming themselves. Especially after reading the happenings of Crackron, Ohio for the last few months in this very newspaper.

I like to see the thugs lose and hopefully die. That way the common folk doesn't pay for a trial or a life in prison. Pizza shop justice was the BEST !!

We need to be aware of the surge in crime, be aware that we must be our own first line of defense.

@sixpantmaloney....Just in case you wanted some independent third-party research on gun crime and concealed handgun laws I can suggest a good report, 'THE RIGHT TO CARRY CONCEALED GUNS AND THE IMPORTANCE OF DETERRENCE', this report was conducted by two legal scholars from of all places the University of Chicago, John R Lott Jr. and David B Mustard, it is considered one of the most comprehensive studies of firearms laws. It analyzed gun ownership, and FBI crime data for each of the nations 3045 counties during an eighteen year period. Their report concluded 'Non discretionary concealed handgun laws are the most effective means of reducing crime'. I have read the books and have written some of my college papers on them, yet I do not see a need for most people to read them, since it is nothing more than evidence supporting common sense.

Fat Painter you forgot one. Our Closet Muslin wants the Muslims to come over here like his daddy did. I guess that means knock up our white women and leave.

To sixpantsmaloney... any evidence "spouted" by the NRA is documented statistics provided by government agencies such as the FBI, Department of Justice, and state & local officials.

Many proponents of gun control are the ones who fabricate their own anecdotal evidence to convince the public of their agenda. These proponents are spinning twisted stories to put fear into our government leaders and cause readers such as you and I to not believe in anything we read.

You are an educated person and you are right, there is no "third party research reporting" because the press usually reports it in small articles by way of the back pages of a newspaper, or, on the air, doesn't report it at all. There is indeed, plenty of research by the government on this matter, but it is not being channeled to us the way we would like because it is not "news" that sells.

I have my ccw I work in Akron and I am going to level the playing field. The ccw does not mean I will always have the drop, but atleast it gives me a fighting chance

Painter..work out and paint.
Maybe the 20% increase in local crime has more to do with the increase in CCws than the hare brained
analogies you spout forth.Now, tell us why the decade long increase in street crime is the responsibility of the man who was elected president 100 -some days ago.
When your hero Bush said that the wealthy and connected were his base did you think he meant you?

At Fat Painter.......your a lunatic. Obama is not the source of your fears. Your just a little nuts. Get some meds!

During the early part of the 1900's,the well dressed man was sure to carry heat.We are going through a renaisance, similar to what happened after the race riots of the 60s.

Most of these posters are loony - wouldn't want them with a butter knife let alone a gun.

Bunch of Yosemite Sam paranoid hillbilies!

Big gun = little jimmy...

Obama is a source of fears, did you catch his world tour of Muslim countrys? Did you catch all the tax evaders that he picked for offices?
If you or I avoided taxes like these idiots we would of already been in jail!!
Goobye Amercia hello USSA wake up stupid people
Come in my house unwanted your going out in a bag!!

@ Fat painter:
Obama screwed up our country and the entire world in 5 months?(Banking system, Automotive industry, Iraq, Afghanistan) Wow. Impressive.
So your ideas would be that all of us should stand on our boarders and wave our guns at the rest of the world? Or cower in our closets with our guns?

Fat Painter,

Do you have a permit to be such an idiot? At least you're certainly not concealing it.

wow

Bush may not have chosen tax evaders, he just picked idiots like Brownie to run FEMA. Heck, even Billy Clinton put better people in charge than (W) the idiot. I think Brownie had problems just running water. If you think Obama is taking your guns and ammo, you are whacked and paranoid !!

''There's been no indication that anybody is anywhere near even considering taking away people's guns,'' she said.

Maybe not everywhere, but here in Chicago, a suburb banned handguns, and it was upheld.

Fight crime - shoot back!

As for the idea that the simple minded general public CCW holder is not composed enough to use a weapon effectively when necessary, there is no evidence that law enforcement officers are any better equipped. Most will go through their entire career without ever using their weapon, and many only shoot enough to to meet qualifications. The active recreational hobbiest tends to be more proficient with a firearm than your average police officer. This isnt to say police officers are not proficient with their arms, but unlike television, they are not engaging in weekly shootouts, and marksmanship comes from practice more than training, which your passionate gun enthusiast tends to get a lot more of.

This is insane! The last thing this country needs is more guns! Look at what happened when a whacko shot Dr. Tiller! I'd love to know where Dr. Tiller's assasin got his gun.....a gun show loophole?

I do agree on this though, if you come to my place and try your home invasion stuff, YOU WILL GET SHOT. No ccw here, just a shotgun.

Hey Empowermentone1; you dont need to look all the way to the corner. Just drive down almost any side street in Crackron these days and 2-3 miscreants minimum will take a nice leisurely stroll into the middle of the road; and then give you the big stink eye while deciding on the fly if you may have enough stuff in your car to make you worth robbing. Chances are one of those tough guys is "packing heat" and just might break into your house and try to throw your 5Lb dog through a wall.

I heart the anti CCW and anti gun folks on this board.

People suggesting that when they are being held up, they should worry about the drywall behind the perp,c'mon? Really? You think the perp is worried about that?

You think, not having a gun makes you safer? You might want to read the link below.

http://www.gunsandcrime.org/faildxprmt.pdf

So, with the increase in gun purchases, we can expect an uptick in gun violence.

Why? Because more guns will be stolen from all the irresponsible gun owners.

Want to decrease the availability of guns for crooks?

Stick every gun owner who has a gun stolen in jail for 90 days for not properly securing their weapon.

That's real personal responsibility.

Common, gun owners - man up adn take responsibility for this right!!!!!!!!!

Right.....

Obama is not the reason for Akronites to carry. Plusquellic and his sidekick Summerville side with the crooks and not the cops. That is why more and more Akronites are choosing to carry.

@RittWittless said:"The active recreational hobbiest tends to be more proficient with a firearm than your average police officer."

Which makes up about 2% of all gun owners.

There aren't enough gun ranges in Ohio to accomodate any higher number.

Get real. Just your uninformed opinion.

No longer a question of being armed, but not knowing which way to aim.

Hoodrats from one direction,

Bloodsucking parasite politicians from the other.

To Michael in Chicago:

Yes, I heard about the court case of a Chicago suburb's citizens' loosing their rights to defend themselves. There are other cases out there as well. Your Chicago suburb case is now going to the U.S. Supreme Court because of an appeal made by NRA attorneys.

As it stands right now, the current Supreme Court upholds our individual right to bear arms and could reverse the lower court decision, but a soon to be newly appointed judge nominated by Obama may change that. Lets hope the NRA has the strength and backing to overcome this threat to our Constitutional rights.

"Look at what happened when a whacko shot Dr. Tiller! I'd love to know where Dr. Tiller's assasin got his gun.....a gun show loophole?"

If only we had a law that said you could not bring your legally concealed firearm into a church.....Oh yeah, we do.

I love when people throw around buzz phrazes with no clue as to what they mean. "Gun show loophole" implies that this man had a history that would disqualify him from purchasing a firearm through legal channels had he not been able to sidestep a background check process. As of yet I've heard no evidence of either, nor have I heard of him being a legal CCW holder. Your spin and speculation is irrelevant to this case.

@nottheusuallib

"Which makes up about 2% of all gun owners.
There aren't enough gun ranges in Ohio to accomodate any higher number."

Im so glad you have chosen to join me in lobbying for more public gun ranges.

@RittWittLess:

You should read more - this guy was a nut-job and the court had already recognized it.

And how will having a concealed weapon stop someone from coming in, anywhere, and shooting you?

Duh - they don't wear signs or smell different........

@nottheusual1

While I agree gun owners need to be responsible owners, blaming them for the theft of a gun is about as ignorant as it gets.

Blame the low life thief.

@RittWitt:

I am on your side on that one. We need more safe places to shoot. Public ones would be cool. Even MA, which has draconian gun laws, has them.

But I doubt it would raise the number of avid shooters much. It still isn't all that cheap to shoot unless you have a garden-variety piece.

The Glocks in my safe are .357 SIG's and the ammo hasn't dropped in price.

And the kooks buying ammo up by the case make it worse.

@TarmacRider:

What a stereotypical response from another slacker gun owner.

You all demand the right to own a gun, but refuse to take responsibility and liability for it.

Ignorant is thinking that your gun is properly stored when it's sitting loaded in your bedside table or in the top of the closet.

Where most idiots who have their guns stolen stash them.

You are given the right to own something that can wantonly take the life of another human. Take that responsibility seriously or don't exercise your right.

We all have the right to expect that from you.

@ nottheusual1

You're dolt, stereotypical dummy, if you will. I take responsibility for my guns. Not only are they in a safe, the have trigger locks as well. So take your assumption, turn it sideways and shove it!

Blaming a gun owner for someone else breaking the law, breaking into someones abode and STEALING there lawfully owned gun is probably the dumbest thing I've seen posted on this board. Of the two actions, owning a gun and breaking & entering, which one is the illegal activity? Hint, the former. Reach out and grab a clue.

How your flawed logic works is beyond me. I mean really, let's draw a parallel: You get rear ended at a traffic light that is red. You are legally stopped and following the law when someone hits your car with theirs. Cops show up and ticket you, because you impeded the other cars motion, rather than citing them for assured clear distance. That's essentially what you are saying when you blame a gun owner for their gun being stolen.

@Tarmac Rider said:"You're dolt, stereotypical dummy, if you will. I take responsibility for my guns. Not only are they in a safe, the have trigger locks as well. So take your assumption, turn it sideways and shove it!"

The traffic accident parallel is lame.

And I'm not blaming the gun owner for being a victim of crime - I'm blaming them for not securing their guns.

So, I've got no issue with you - you act responsibly. So do I.

It is fascinating that you spend so much time defending others who aren't.

Why's that?

"You are given the right to own something that can wantonly take the life of another human. Take that responsibility seriously or don't exercise your right."

Thats right! When you are not driving your car I would assume you keep it locked in a garage with a wheel boot on it as well. If its just sitting there in your driveway loaded with a tank full of gas like most of those stolen, and somebody steals it, and commits a crime with it, it is your responsibility.

People are buying guns before Obamination's policies makes them too expensive to purchase. Only the criminals and illegals will own guns. Check out his voting record on gun control.

FYI: This has nothing to do with former President George W. Bush.

Neovet,

You keep talking about the current nominee for the Supreme Court and how it might skew their decision on gun laws. First off, the ultra conservative judges appointed by Reagan, Bush1 and Bush2 still hold a majority in the court even with this appointment. Second, the current case you're citing will most likely be heard and decided before the new appointee is confirmed and in place.

Even the people running the gun training sites interviewed in this article state that the CCW law in Ohio is under no real threat. But all you GUN EXPERTS know better, so induce more panic, convince people that the evil Obama administration is going to take their guns away. Maybe more of them will start attacking and shooting people in defiance of this perceived threat that somebody is going to take their gun.

If you're afraid of being robbed in your home, your car, on the way to work, whatever, fine buy a gun, get some training and a CCW permit. But like Nottheusual1 says, lock that gun up and keep it secured, practie as much as you can. And if you do end up using your gun, make sure you don't shoot any innocent bystanders. (Of course the criminal doesn't care about that. But if you don't want to be locked up for a crime yourself you better consider these things, and take responsibility for this RIGHT that you have been granted by the people).

PS The constitution is a guideline, rules and laws in our country can be changed and deciced on by various local/state/federal bodies.

@RittWitt:

Point out the last time a guy walked into a corner store and pulled his Chevy on somebody.

Or the last time there was a drive-by Fording.

Or the last time a guy was shot in church by a Dodge.

Get serious.........

Steve, read Obamination's voting record on gun control.

@Not Brained said:"before Obamination's policies makes them too expensive to purchase."

I keep asking - point me to one of these "policies" so I can be outraged, too.

Oh - just more paranoia. Boo!!!!!!!

My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban as soon as I take office. Within 90 days, we will work to end all gun shows. I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."

--Barack Obama, VPC Fund Raiser, 2007

Let me first saw I own a gun which has shot many a rabid animal. Most NRA members and people I know who think they need guns for protection have an IQ of slug. They are nuts.

@ nottheusual1 "Why's that?"

Seems pretty simple to me, really. Someone legally goes out, purchases a firearm and takes it home. They have done nothing wrong. Other than when transporting firearms, there are no Ohio laws that I know of that require special storage of firearms.

Let's suppose the purchaser is single and have no children and have made the purchase for 'home protection'. They store the gun in a night table next to their bed.

They have done nothing wrong. They have broken no law.

The leave for work on any given day and lock their home. While at work, their home is broken into. The firearm, amongst other items is stolen. I don't see what the gun owner did as irresponsible in any way. I don't see how blaming them for a gun making it to 'the street' accomplishes anything.

Blaming the common law abiding citizen seems more like blaming the victim rather than placing the blame where it squarely belongs, on the true criminal, the guy whole stole someones property.

And I guess I see your stance as I blaming the victim that kind of strikes the wrong nerve with me. I think part of the problem with this society is it does blame the victim rather than placing the blame squarely on the individual who broke the law, who more often than not, will not take responsibility for their actions.

@Not Brained:

Total discredited BeeEss. He never said that and any organization with the "VPC" initials says he never even made a speech to them in the time period mentioned.

Here's a link that has real info, not some Fox bloggy-thing spew or Malkin brain-puke:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_obama_promise_last_year_to_ban.html

So, no policy = rampant paranoia.

Be sure to feed the animals?????

@nottheusual1
So buy applying your logic, we should arrest every person whose has their car stolen. They are by far more deadlier than firearms. In 2006 their were 43,664 deaths related to Automobiles (last CDC stats on record, look it up), there were 29,674 gun related deaths with 16,883 of those being suicide leaving only 12,791 homicides.

BTW - I do keep my firearms locked up in safes but I also consider them secure in my locked up house also. Just as I consider my car secure when I lock it at night. Its the thief who breaks the law by stealing my property, not the other way around.

I think the CCW permit is great!
I actually think the 2nd amendment is the original and only permit needed.
An armed society is a polite society!

@Tarmac Rider:

Yep - let's just excuse personal responsibility for firearms.

And like I said - gun violence will go up because more guns are stolen.

And as long as your attitude is the pervasive one, it will continue.

And give more ammo to the gun control folks.

Very short-sighted. Actually sad.

Especially considering that a vast majority of gun owners identify themselves as "conservatives", who's mantra in supposed to be personal responsibility.

Kind of hypocritical.

Only the whacked out, freak, paranoids think that a dem in office means guns will disappear. Get a life nut job. I put you people in the same class as the paranoid freak who gunned down those police in Pittsburgh.

Reminds me of how speculation on oil reserves disappearing will make gasoline rise to $10/gallon. It is this SAME thinking that makes people go bananas over buying HUGE reserves of ammo. Relax FREAKS. They make pills for this also.

And yes, Bush is still an IDIOT !!

@Unbelievable (appropriate) said:"So buy applying your logic, we should arrest every person whose has their car stolen."

What a chuckle-head.

I can't remember reading the story about the corner store being robbed by a perp who stuck a Volvo in the clerk's face.

Nobody buys their car for "home defense".

If you really think that, you are the poster child for stricter gun laws.

Get a brain......

"And like I said - gun violence will go up because more guns are stolen."

Hasn't happened yet, violent crimes go down as gun ownership increases. The corollary to that as gun laws become more stringent violent crime increases. So I'll believe you're stance when I see it based in fact, not supposition.

"Especially considering that a vast majority of gun owners identify themselves as "conservatives", who's mantra in supposed to be personal responsibility.

Kind of hypocritical."

Good thing I don't identify myself as either conservative or liberal, I don't like either of their agendas.

Fat Painter, agree with Obama or not and in many, many cases, I do not, one thing I do not believe is that he is a Muslim - closet or otherwise. Stop passing that propaganda. If you disagree with him, name-calling & paranoid lies are not the way to go.

"Most of these posters are loony - wouldn't want them with a butter knife let alone a gun.
Bunch of Yosemite Sam paranoid hillbilies!
Big gun = little jimmy..."

Couldn't have said it better, Jan.

@TarmacRider said:"Hasn't happened yet, violent crimes go down as gun ownership increases. The corollary to that as gun laws become more stringent violent crime increases. So I'll believe you're stance when I see it based in fact, not supposition."

Sources????

GOD BLESS AMERICA...AKRON TO BE HONEST........IT'S SAD TO SEE ALL OF THE PIZZA AND CHINEESE DELIVERY DRIVERS GET ROBBED FOR SO LITTLE PAY AND EVEN USING THEIR OWN CAR TO DELIVER....THEY SHOULD ALL HAVE A C.C.W PERMIT........I KNOW A FEW THAT DO AND GOD BLESS THEM AND THANK YOU OHIO FOR LETTING US CARRY

As much as I may not want to admit it, like all countries, the United States will eventually fade from the world scene. No earthly thing lasts forever. Books will be written about our rise and fall. I predict that one of the things that will be cited as a factor in our demise will be our endorsement of violence. The belief that owning a deadly weapon is a fundemental right that makes us safer will be viewed as a one strange idea. Returning to the hear and now, I am as concerned about CCW who may be fantasizing about shooting someone as the crooks with guns.

Based on most of the usual keyboard cowards that post here, Ohio should make gun ownership mandatory. The sooner you "frontier justice" fools wipe each other out or end up in jail, the better.

And before you imbeciles jump all over my comments, I fully support concealed carry and gun ownership and have 3 guns myself.

Gotta protect myself from you loons anyway possible. LOL!

@TarmacRider:

I'll inject some reality:

"American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States."

Centers for Disease Control

BTW - we rank behind all those same places in how well we educate our kids, too.

Stupid and well armed. The new America.

Nothing wrong with CCW permits. AK47's for squirrel hunting Mexican cartel is quite another issue.

@TarmacRider: More facts

"While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun in the home is 4 times more likely to be involved in an unintentional shooting, 7 times more likely to be used to commit a criminal assault or homicide, and 11 times more likely to be used to attempt or commit suicide than to be used in self-defense."

Imagine how those numbers would drop if those guns were required to be secured......

"In 2004 (the most recent year for which this data has been compiled), handguns murdered:

* 5 people in New Zealand
* 37 people in Sweden
* 56 people in Australia
* 184 people in Canada
* 19 people in Japan
* 73 people in the UK
* 11,344 people in the United States"

Australia and New Zealand have serious gun control laws, and have seen no increase in gun violence as a result.

Still waiting on your facts.....

For all you paranoid schezo's...one of the few things left in America to love is that one can protect home and life with any means allowed to by the Constitution of the United States. And I thank GOD that I continue to have this right and I will engage in that right to the fullest extent!
God bless America!

Anonymous violent crime is a statistical anomaly. Victims almost always know the offender. So if you're going to worry and carry a gun then you best wear a helmet because you might get hit by a meteor.


Wuzo,

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll check it out. Most my reading is from a Criminology/Sociology perspective. I don't think an economic lens can necessarily bring all aspects of this complex issue into focus but that does not diminish the worth.

Nottheusual1,

Keep up the fight and presenting facts to those that are less informed. But most won't believe it, you'll be told your facts are from biased sources. They believe their idols like Rush more than they would believe any facts.

PS Who is this Obamination that Not (but really is) Brainwashed (by Rush) is talking about?

Wayne County Commissioners spending taxpayers money derived from wages or independent business profit to pay for the more stock dividends (money) Chinese, Foreign and Domestic Investors and Stockholders market quarterly in the wholesale and retail price of everything Human Beings use for life, everything government needs to provide security and services, and grant Commissioners husband $660,000 to produce food and fiber.
These Commissioners refuse to comply with realities demands; they pay Law Enforcement wages enabling them to love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide, for every child (job) they conceive and fund schools, infrastructure, national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages.
This leaves Wayne County residents responsible to defend themselves from criminals!

@Steve appropriately noted:"Who is this Obamination that Not (but really is) Brainwashed (by Rush) is talking about?"

Shhhhhhhhhh!!! It's the voices in his head or the little green guys under his bed. I dunno which.

To Karl Rove,all you do is seat your but on the computer talking stuff.on all the topic today. I no you dont have anything to do.that means you dont have a life.Guns might help and they might not. im just saying that having a gun isnt the problem.Its the people that use guns.Sorry i just dont beleive in killing people.And as long as guns are available this world is always going to be the way it is.Because the good people get killed to. People dont deserve to die.And if i run into that problem and someone to harm me and i had a gun.I would shoot them in the foot.Because killing someone that isnt right.I just cant have murder on my hand.killing i the worst you can do.Sorry but that is just me.

sorry i just dont beleave in killing/killing is the worst you can do.Yes my nephew went to rob the pizza place.With a gun with out bullets. To avery one in sorry for what happened.I mess him .I just hope the kids today will learn from this.His friend .Walks around like nothing. this is why i have a problem with guns.Sorry averyone

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb702.pdf

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

http://www.theacru.org/blog/2007/05/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/

@Nottheusualone

Enjoy the reading.

Oh, the Harvard study is excellent reading and FWIW, I believe our current and several presidents have attended that university.

The U of Chicago is the hub of most sociological studies and rather liberal, I like irony.

Need further SES stats, feel free to let me know.

8chanice...sorry honey. Had a difficult time reading your post. Had a hard time telling where one sentence begins and the next one ends. For starters, don't be afraid to capitalize the first word in every sentence. I learned that in 3rd grade.

Shanice,

That was really your nephew that went to rob the pizza place, wow I wouldn't admit that to anybody. Not to bright, and a thug criminal anyway.

If you don't believe in killing you might want to talk to other family members and people in your community. Ask them to stop robbing people, using guns and threatening their lives. If your nephew hadn't gone to rob that place, he wouldn't be dead. If he had bullets in the gun, it may have been the pizza shop owner who was shot and killed. I can't blame the business owner for protecting himself against a threat on his life. I'm sure he didn't enjoy killing that guy.

@ nottheuusuallib "Point out the last time a guy walked into a corner store and pulled his Chevy on somebody.
Or the last time there was a drive-by Fording.
Or the last time a guy was shot in church by a Dodge.
Get serious........."

Are you serious? Cars kill 40,000 people per year - far more than guns. Innocent people die every day from stolen vehicle crashes. And yes, we even have plenty of cases of people intentionally running down or attempting to run down people with vehicles. How many police officers die or are injured as a result of people using vehicles as a weapon? It would not surprise me if vehicles were used as weapons against police officers more often than guns. I wont fabricate statistics to back it up, but its reported frequently.

it seems silly to blame the guns for peoples behavior.. guns don't do the killing, the people do.. so basically .. take their guns away and they are still going to kill people, but they are going to come up with more creative ways to do it..

like taking an ax in a gas station maybe?

i'm all for the CCW.. i got mine a couple years ago.

Also - if you are serious about checking facts - I would sure not count on factcheck.org. They are funded by the Annenberg Foundation. Annenberg donates money to the Brady Campaign. They also funded the Annenberg Challenge--where both Bill Ayers and Obama himself were involved. You won't be able to verify that though, because the University of Chicago sealed all of the Challenges records in the run-up to the last election. FactCheck THAT.

My first post didn't make it -

basically - you should look up John Lott's. He takes a serious look at the statistics around guns and violence. It is peer reviewed - not like the 'facts' one gets from the Brady Campaign.

A gun is a tool. Hold people accountable for it's use. We have a gun culture in this country - that is not going to change. If you want gun control like in England or Australia, fine. But you don't always get what you want.

@RittWittless:

As usual, you miss the point.

Show me the story where a guy held a car to his head and beeped his brains out.

What about the story where the kids found the BMW in the bedside table and accidentally ran each other over.

Or the distraught father who F-150'd his family before turning the truck on on himself.

Guns are single-purpose. They kill. They have no other intended use.

And I'd always thought you had some sense. Proved me wrong.

Thanks.

@TarmacRider:

Thanks - that was very good reading. But you should re-read my posts.

But I'm not espousing more "gun control", I'm after greater responsibility on the part of gun owners.

My numbers don't lie. I hope you looked at them.

We kill more of our kids every year because gun owners are irresponsible.

None of your information said anything different.

@Joe

Good advice on John Lott.

One of the links I posted is from him.

Here we go with 8chanice again, NOT giving it it a rest ref. the pizza shop shooting. Apparently, this shotgun did not have "bullets". Have never seen one that did.

Pointing an unloaded ANYTHING is asking for a loaded response. A CCW enables you to change your life drastically in the blink of an eye. Many of these CCW courses are a bit more than info-mercials, pushing certain products and weapons, stating where they're available. Let's mention the non-defunct CCW course in Navarre. This instructor was basically teaching for maybe six hours, and range time was a complete joke. Appropriately, he is now under federal indictment.

Hardly ANYTHING gets mentioned in courses reference the "triangle" of ability, opportunity,and jeopardy.

Ability: The person deemed to be a threat must possess the ability or power to kill or maim.

Opportunity: The person deemed to be a threat must be capable of immediately employing his power to kill or maim.

Jeopardy: This means that the person deemed to be a threat must be acting in such a manner that a reasonable and prudent person would conclude beyond doubt that his intent is to kill or cripple.

The best thing you can do is pick up several books on concealed carry and defense.....and read. The scenarios offered, as well as information given is beyond value.

To the people who believe that they are being safe by keeping their sourse of protection locked up in a safe with a trigger lock installed, well, good luck getting prepared in the dark when Mr. Thug is on his way up the stairs with nothing to lose.

@Joe said:"A gun is a tool. Hold people accountable for it's use."

That's all I want to do. Hold gun owners accountable for what happens with their guns.

I haven't asked for anything else.

@nottheusual1
"Show me the story where a guy held a car to his head and beeped his brains out."

How about the guy who turns it on, closes the garage door and goes to sleep, permanently? Ooops.

"What about the story where the kids found the BMW in the bedside table and accidentally ran each other over."

What about the kids who steal the keys to the BMW and go out joy riding and run into another car and die?

"Or the distraught father who F-150'd his family before turning the truck on on himself."

Or the wife who runs over her husband because she suspects him of cheating.

http://www.gateway.ualberta.ca/articles/news/2009/03/05/u-a-prof-s-book-explores-violent-history-vehicles-used-weapons

You've got some flawed logic mate.

"Guns are single-purpose. They kill. They have no other intended use."

BS. They have more than 1 purpose, you can't kill inanimate objects, it's all I've ever shot. Paper targets, clay pigeons, etc....

___________________________________________________

Sixpants, there are rounds you can buy that won't penetrate through walls of apartment complexes. I lived in Texas for years and they're very popular there for use in weapons purchased for self defense.

Wow the crazy is strong in this thread.

let me add to it

I hope the government comes to take away your guns.

I hope they suspend posse commitatus and send federal troops to do it.

Then I can re-enlist and sit in a command track with my other Marine buddies and chuckle as we call in close air-support and drop a JDAM on your house knowing you are in there barricaded behind your barca lounger clutching your AR-15 thinking your gonna stand a chance against federal troops. Heck we'll just sit back on the interstate and of a B-52 flight carpet bomb your whole silly neighborhood.

Collect all guns ya want if it ever goes "all bets are off" between any large segment of the public and the government. You can have howitzers and it won't save you.

Militias- pfftt. I'll take the 500 eighteen year old kids graduating at Parris Island today and wipe out every militia in North America in about 3 days

Thunder31,Carl rove

Carl Rove,and Thunder31,Ashamed about what. I dont have to be ashamed.Peolpe like you and this other nut.I dont judge other people,because you do that is gods job.Sorry and is that the only thing you can say carl.Like i said Carl.Get a life because you dont have know.And you dont beleave about the bullets.Call detective Odem.

@Reality:

That's always been by point, too. All the gun club wannabe's in the country would last milliseconds against a squad of Marines.

One pink cloud and they'd mess their drawers and run.

They have no concept. None. "Militias"....hah.

nottheusual1 is a troll. Don't feed the trolls.

I've had my CHL for a little more than a year and it is definitely the best thing I've ever done. Dan Clevenger was my instructor and he led a great class. I learned a lot.

Remember that when seconds count, the police will be there in minutes. Police officers know that and that is why they are pro concealed carry.

More guns in the hands of honest law abiding citizens is only a threat to thugs and gang members who want to terroize and take what they have not earned. In Akron, there are a lot of thugs. I carry every where I go and I consider my gun just like car insurance. I hope I never have to use it, but if I need it, then I have it!

And for Steve,Your not bright my name starts with C.

i have known peole in both gun clubs and militas-alot of them are ex-military
if a resistance is ever called for in this country it will not be conducting war against howitzers and jet aircraft,it will be advanced irregular warfare,with well thought out attacks and asassinations
this is a personal constitutional right we are talking about-George Washington said in his adress to the continental congress"THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IS SECOND TO NONE ,NOT EVEN THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH,FIREARMS ARE THE LIBERTY TEETH OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE"
so that places it in context,i am not looking stir things up-all i will say is do not tread on my 2nd amendment CIVIL RIGHTS or i will fight with the correct amount of resistance that is needed to win

sorry marines...I don't think it would take marines to stop a militia. We could train boy scouts to shoot howitzers and rifles and take care of militias. They talk a good game when seen on tv, but that's about it.

Retired_ You are probably a little retarded too. The anti gun crowd has been crying the same song for years. And year after year more states have passed concealed carry laws and there has not been any of the blood shed and gun fights your kind claim. If you don't have the intelligence to own a gun and pass a concealed carry course and the intelligence to know when your life is in danger then please don't get a gun. To the rest of us we should thank the NRA for constantly fighting for that right. Join the NRA.

Retired- You and the rest of the anti gun clowns have been screaming that line for years. Yet year after year state after state that have passed concealed carry laws have proved you and your anti gun clowns wrong. If you don't have the intelligence to pass a concealed carry course, or the intelligence to know when your life is in danger then please don't get a gun because you are the type that would give gun owners a bad name because of your lack of intelligence.

To all gun owners. We should all thank the NRA for the never ending battle they do for our right to own a gun. Those court cases they bring to protect our right to own a gun are not cheap. Please do your part and join the NRA. I believe it is only 30 per year and you get a first class Hunting magazine or Gun magazine each month. Your choice. So do your part to help protect our right to own a fire arm and join the NRA.

tell our troops to come home

What is it about gun stuff that sucks the brains out of people? For crying out loud, no one is going to take guns away- that is just silly. So is the ruling (as near as I can tell) that says that the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to states. Please.

It is equally silly to say that the crime rate is rising because of CCW laws. CCW folks TEND to be law abiding- maybe a little whacked, but certainly not criminals that anyone has to worry about on a day to day, migging and burglary kind of way. A Ruby Ridge kind of way, maybe, but that doesn't worry us.

As for all of you ranting on about the President, charging racial and religious stereotypes, you do understand that you lose all of your credibility b acting out that way don't you? If all you want to do is cheer each other on in your delusional and ignorant hatred, be my guest. But if you actually expect any grown-ups to listen to your point of view you need to have one- not a paranoid and childish rant. Please.

This says it ALL . . . and so does the condescending smirk on Schumer's face:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4069761537893819675

Mathemata whatever you are....ga, ga, ga....it is a freakin' blog...whatever goes!

I will see your silly CHL and raise you 6 years of pistol and rifle expert qualification at ranges out to 1000 meters. 4 months at Quantico. 1 tour in Iraq and 1 in Afghanistan.

I am all for you fodder having concealed carry but those of you that feel you need assault weapons........well let me just say one word.

wannabes

I am sure the CCW will make you feel safe. May even make the criminals pause for a second. But more than likely by the time you figure out your in a bad situation some predator will already have the drop on you and best case senario your gun gets stolen along with your wallet. Worse case senario it gets used on you.

The pizza shop was a fluke. Good for him he's a great guy and a friend of mine. But even he knows he got lucky.

in most cases it gonna be too late and reaching for your hold-out pistol is gonna get you killed. But whatever makes you feel safer.

But please. Leave the assault weapons to the professionals. YOU don't need an AR-15 with side rails and optics. YOU just don't.

You have to be able to carry a gun..........It is the only way to make sure you have a chance if someone opens fire in a public place.....probably a boot

nottheusual1,
You are certainly not a very good representative of the gun owners in Ohio. I believe you are a gun-grabber posing as a pro-gun "nut" in order to make true law abiding gun owners look bad.

You are both a poser and a troll but here I go again, feeding those trolls!

i think i need a gun because this world isnt safe, and i dont want to be without one when they say we can no longer get one,so if anyone has any extra stimulis please send it my way cause i`m broke,and cant afford one, maybe the drug dealer felon across the street with five kids has an extra that i can have, why all the hate for obama, are you guys hearing your selves, bet you haters all claim to be christians as well, so you guys know that god dont like ugly, and i`m not calling the painter guy to paint my house

Toby Hoover in the article wrote... "There's been no indication that anybody is anywhere near even considering taking away people's guns,"

THERE WAS DURING KATRINA... watch this video and make that statement again. And this was under Bush, under Obama it's hard to tell what you'd lose. I know this is YouTube but I figured most anti gunners probably couldn't read so this would be the easiest way to denounce Toby's statement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

By the way this is from ABCNEWS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm5PC7z79-8&NR=1

Stupid and well armed. The new America.
Well said nottheusualone.

The us-against-them anti-Obama rhetoric at the local gun shows/shops was scarier than all the thugs in Summit county combined.

Some of these nutcases were even stating that they would shoot up any car desplaying an opposing political view.
These delusional individuals think that the CCW makes them quasi-military-law enforcers and were gobling up little CCW badges to pin on their puffed out chests.
That my friends is some scary S..t.
This heated rhetoric,fueled by the Republican mouthpieces,is what is spuring normal folks to feel threatened enough to chance decorating their homes with dangerous ordinance.
Let's hope little Johney or Sussie don't decide to play cops and robbers.
One statistic which has always stuck with me is that among gun deaths over 50% are self-inflicted suicides.
Word to the wise.

They did take away guns during Katrina. They did not help all the people. Some got help many did not.

You are on your own, remember that. The government has to protect you as a whole but not individually. You are as safe as you make your self. Dont expect some government bureaucrat to help you in a time of need.

sixpantsmaloney, Are you trying to say ONLY someone with tactical training has the right to defend themselves? Who are you to say that I don't have that right. We don't need a third party to say we can defend ourselves. 2nd ammendment already says we have the right. And for ALL of you that thinks different, How would you like a "third" party to come in your home and tell you how YOU can live? The Bill of rights are clear, they like the Constitution ARE the supreme law of the land, Our founding Fathers new exactley what they were doing and what we as a people needed. You have the freedoms you have because of this, STOP trying to take away mine. By the way I'm ex-military, so don't presume you you are more capable than anyone else. If you learned anything from history you should remember that a large part of your freedoms were fought for by farmers and common citizens. And on that note how many BAD COPS do we have in this country, that abuse thier authority? And they are "trained"!! Police officers are no better than the rest of us they have no more morals than I! They just wear a badge! SO, get real!

And for the rest of you that don't think we should have a right to carry, Lokk at the issue with logic, NOT anger, or just what you hear. Think of this, The law CANNOT be everywhere, all the time. They are there after the fact. Can you justify standing and doing nothing while YOUR family member is being severely beatin, or raped, and say well, "the law will catch him", If so your worse than the criminal. We have laws to punish those that commit criminal acts, But, I, and you have a duty and obligation to defend ourselves, our family and our fellow man in the absence of law! I'm not saying be a vigilante, nor is any other gun owner saying we want to be vigilante's, It's a matter of self defense. You will see the truth in this if God forbid you are ever in such a situation. As a free people there are NO rights or freedoms that we can allow to be taken from us.

Thunder but is that all you can say. I dont care what you think, and for your info, This is freedom of speech. And all i was saying is that sorry about what happened.


That is all i said your but is the one with the problem.you need to get over it, or just get a life .What is your email address and phone number because i need to no what happened to you as a child.And no i am not ashamed because,If i cared what someone thougth i would not have said sorry.So i no god is with me i no god is looking at me saying good job.

If you equate guns to cars, you are an idiot....guns were made for one purpose to kill...cars for transportation...look it up...

Reality- Oh Boy you sound like one of those hero's in their own head type. I have a CCW and it is because I know in reality that when I am out with my family it isn't just me that could be in danger some day. Believe me I would rather not ever have to have a bad situation happen but no one is immune from danger. I,m pretty sure I would handle a life threatening situation with out dumping in my pants. By the way I did my 2 years in the ARMY. One in Viet Nam 70-71 while you were still S*H*I*T*T*I*N*G in your pants if you were even born yet. So lighten up WANNA BE HERO.

I always have a gun.....

I refuse to be a victim, feelin lucky punk?

To all of you that are compainig about "Crakron" and "thugs" what are you doing to help the city out? How can you keep your neighborhood safer? Be a part o the solution, not the problem, and if you really hate Akron that much, MOVE!!!!Let's educate instead of judging!

Stumpy, your logic betrays your intelligence level! Do you really believe that law abiding citizens carrying guns is the reason for increased crime? You must also believe in round squares and square circles!

By very definition a law abiding citizen does not break the law. One must have a clean record in order to get a CHL. Please educate yourself before you speak. I know there is no law against ignorance but you gun-grabbers who make uniformed and emotional statements about things you know nothing about are really annoying. I see why you like nottheusual1. You two are two peas in a pod.

Your statements about the gun show and CHL holders are absolutely ridiculous. You've obviously never been to a gun show and you don't know anyone with a CHL.

It is always best to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are stupid than to open it and prove it!

Hey Tread.

Way to twist my statement and make an unsubstantiated assumption.You must also believe in the tooth fairy simply because there is no evidence to the contrary.

How would you twist the statement that I am intimately aquainted with gun shows/shops and am licenced to carry whatever cold piece of metal I want?No bravado,just a fact.

My point was that maybe a psychological test should be part of the requirement for a CCW and not just being able to sit in a chair for a few hours and popping off a few rounds.
There is such a thing as clean criminal record but
a warped mind full of hatred and bias.
The cop killer in Twinsburg had a CCW and a clean record like many other screwballs.

Anyone you know come to mind?


Some of you Yosemite Sams really need to get your heads out of that dark hole and look at the bigger piucture.

Remember,more than 50% of gun deaths are self-inflicted.
Word to the wise.

Your quips are just too original.I have never heard them before..well maybe just once.

Your quips are too original.I have never heard them before...well maybe just once.

Reality.....I started from the top, read all of your posts. Thank you for both your committed service and your constant accurate logic.

You decide: nraila.org/obama/

Reality: I really hope that some of your comments are tounge-in-cheek. I don't know any current or former servicemen, myself included, who want to police, disarm or run ops against any citizen of this country.

Thunder, you are a coward. stay off the computer If you cant stay on the topic. The topic isnt about pizza .You must of had a hard life.We will be praying for you.No joke.Killing isnt a laughing matter.

I don't know what service you were in but I remember and oath to protect this country from all threats foreign AND DOMESTIC. Personally I got a belly full of killin the foreign ones when obviously there are plenty of doctor killing , white sheet wearing, nut job extremists that could use some killing right here in America. Heck they pose and even more possible threat to MY loved ones than the muslims come to think of it. Obama is the president deal with it. He was elected and that is all there is to it. He decides he wants to change the gun laws. Your gonna have to deal with that too. And if you get all "pry it from my cold deads fingers" well myself and plenty of current service men I know will be happy to oblige you.

Now mind you. I have no problem with letting joe public have CCW. Heck it will help thin the herd. It will become a matter for Darwin. But military style weapons (AR, AK's, SLR, FAL, Galil, G3, et al) do not need to be possessed by the public. SMG's either. Nor anything high capacity. Makes no sense and they serve no purpose in the hands of the public.

In short, anybody...ANYBODY...that starts talking about violence against the current Commander-In-Chief for any reason should expect to be treated as an enemy by the government AND its Military. And dealt with accordingly. I know plenty of soldiers and Marines that won't hesitate just because the target says "now hold on there boy".

If I lived in Akron amongst the thug population, I would arm up.

Superbly stated Reality.

@Stumpy- I agree with you that those who want to carry a gun should have to submit to psychological testing. Look at how many "nuts" post on here in favor of their right to bear arms.

(Thunder but) like a said.You need to go back to all of, rove post,and read them again.First, i wasnt talking to you.I was talking to Karl Rove,Because the comment he made about the pizza shop.
That had nothing to do with you.So i have a big heart.So all i sad to averyone sorry for what happened.Because you what to have a stick up your but you have at it.So to the decent people sorry.To the (EGG HEAD)you no who you are .(GOD BLESS YOU)And you talk about grammer and averything else send me some money to go to school.

Reality- Boy you are one brain washed person. Hope you don't own any weapons. Remember Viet Nam? Naw you were probably still dumping in your pants if you were even born. All those nasty weapons we used for over 10 years. I saw more than I wanted. Who won? You need a little smoke to calm down. You sound like a bomb waiting to go off.

8-Whatever, see Nobama for your stimulus handout. Your comment is on a public page, sweetheart. Anyone can respond, and I did. I remember your blatant B.S. after the justified shooting.

You spout dribble. Looking forward to hearing your "unloaded weapon" garbage after the assault on a business owner.

8chanice, see today's post ref. the Buchtel senior. Peace out.

((Thunder but)Do you,( UNDER STAND)I had to put it that way. I think you are on some (METH)or something. because your brain is full of (POOP).AND if you look like that picture,Im sure your on( DRUGS)And where did Obama come in this commet(.AND IM NOT )your sweet heart.I got a man.And for your info,(COWARD) what is you email address and name .Or are you scared.(YES) like i said.

Chanice, I love your tirades!

And,I love you to.And so does (GOD) In a nice way.I just was (BLESSED),By (CHRIST)have a blessed day.

8chanice
akron, oh

Posted 06:10 PM, 06/05/2009 And for Steve,Your not bright my name starts with C.

Sorry the 8 at the front of the name confused me when I typed it in, looked like S

Don't Tread on Me!
said "Police officers know that and that is why they are pro concealed carry."

Really, because that is contrary to what I remember reading when it was discussed. A quick search showed me this.

web site http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/6466 (titled Ten Threats to our Ohio Gun Rights in 2009, it shows under #7

7. The Fraternal Order of Police and the Ohio Association of Police Chiefs (new to the Top Ten)

Time and time again, the Fraternal Order of Police and the Ohio Association of Police Chiefs have tried to use their political clout to crush legislation that has even a hint of being pro-gun. The Fraternal Order of Police took a hard line stance against the initial concealed carry law, and opposed any attempts to improve the law. The Ohio Association of Police Chiefs also openly opposed any form of concealed carry for anyone who is not a law enforcement officer.

Neither organization has ever taken a stance in support of the Second Amendment rights of the average citizen, but has taken numerous opportunities to oppose them. Recently, the Fraternal Order of Police tried to kill the Castle Doctrine.


Hmm, those don't sound like people that support the CCW. They wouldn't be on this list if they did. So I think you're way off base here.

do2MeandC-

"You need a little smoke to calm down"

I think you may have summed up your South East Asian experience with that one little sentence buddy.

Also I was born in 71 so ya I was "crapping in my pants" during Vietnam.

Also I really don't care one way or another about guns. Some are tools and some are works of art, but never toys. Some people just need to learn that.

You see it only seems to be thug criminals and a certain other segment of society that does not understand and respect firearms. Like these idiots for example.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE4B37XC20081204

Which group do you most identify with?

Reality:

I think that you missed my point. Of course we took an oath to protect this country from domestic enemies. We are employees of the government, and we fight for this country regardless of politics, religous beliefs or affiliation. Do I agree with the current president? No. Would I give my life to protect him? Yes.

But would you really get off on "carpet bombing your whole silly neighborhood"? Would it make your day to drive a tank into Cleveland or Akron to suppress the population? Would it make you feel like a bigger man to walk an American street in suburbia with an M-4? NO soldier should ever want to HAVE to fight on American soil, especially against their own citizens. It sounds like you can't wait for it.

And what is the deal with this "And if you get all "pry it from my cold deads fingers" well myself and plenty of current service men I know will be happy to oblige you."

Is that your objective, to lay down a fellow soldier? If it is, then feel free to take one step in my front door.

"Is that your objective, to lay down a fellow soldier? If it is, then feel free to take one step in my front door."

no dude. Just don't like extremists of any variety. I don't like the talk coming from the right. Be it about getting their guns taken away or talk of violence against doctors or any of the rest of it.

And most of what I am saying is to eliminate the argument that an armed populous stops the government from getting out of hand. That may have been the case during the forefathers time but it holds no water today.

This talk of "Tea parties" and what not. If the good ol' boys think they are gonna resist this or any administration and the military is just gonna stand by and refuse to be put into service in say Atlanta or Nashville. I think you folks need to wake up and realize your gonna be in for a surprise.

Baghdad or Cleveland makes no difference to me honestly though. Would I like it? Nope. Would I hesitate? Nope. Why should I? If you arm yourself and resist the laws of the Government of the United States I will just categorize you an enemy and that will be that.

And yes I get really excited everytime I hear "30 seconds out" and right after a JDAM strike especially the 2k lbs ones. Sometimes I can't help it and giggle. And I am sure it would feel the same were it some wingnut freeper's house in Stow.

What makes you think there would be a difference in how I should feel firing on "the son's of Jihad" or some member of "the son's of Bill O'rielly". They are two and the same.

"Just don't like extremists of any variety"

Really? You truly do talk down the right, but somehow leave out the "extremists" who kill each other on the city streets every night for some drugs or a couple of bucks. Are they not "domestic terrorists"? Are the "wingnuts" more dangerous than them? Do the "wingnut freepers" kill as much as they do?

Moving on, I have to ask you this: If you label Bill O'Reilly as an influence of violence, then where are your references to virtually every hardcore music group that is out there? Are you expecting me to believe that Bill O'Reilly has influenced more individuals to kill than them?

And what about Hollywood, which is loaded with "anti-wingnut liberals"? Are you telling me that Sean Hannity has had more of a negative influence on society than most movies that come out?

Answer me this: Who is more dangerous? The "sons of Bill O'Reilly" or the "sons of Bill Ayers"? You know, William Ayers, the self-proclaimed domestic terrorist from the 60's? Last I looked, he was a utopian liberal. But I'm sure that Rush Limbaugh has committed a lot more henious acts than him.

Reality, you need to realize that the right is not the enemy. They are the very core group of people who support the military, support the troops and support the war. They are not the one's out there picketing you and I because we went overseas and did our job. They are not the one's who want to show pictures of dead brothers and sisters coming home to use as propaganda. And they most certainly are not the one's who want to let ANYONE, foreign or domestic, terrorize this country any longer.

For every one "right-wing nutjob" out there, there are 1000 of the other group who will stop at nothing to bring this country to it's kness. You just choose not to see it my friend. I love my country, work for and support my government, I just choose not to be a puppet to them.

Distorted Reality; you're the reason citizens need to be armed, and with the best equipment they can find/afford. Your mentality only affirms the allegations of the "wingnut" stance you so readily discredit.

That aside, you sound awefully optimistic about the US Armed Forces fighting against civilians defending their rights. I must pose the question, how do you plan on calling in B-52s or any aerial support when the pilots refuse to fly the missions? REally think enough of the military will stand behind a government that attempts to disarm the people? There are just over 3 million individuals in the entire Armed Forces right now, and almost 100 million firearms owners in the nation. If every single serviceman/woman fights for the government, not a single one defects or goes awol, and only 10% of the armed populous fights, then the military is still outgunned more than 3 to 1. Those are some generous predictions in your favor, by the way... your mindset is certainly in the minority amongst the troops.

To be frank, I would sooner stand beside 10 "militiamen" against everyone in the military with your mindset than submit to helplessness against a run-amok government. America's common men and women have stood against the greatest armies in the world and won, with nothing more than the family rifle and a strong love of liberty.

The scenarios you folks are painting seem awful bleak and apocalyptic.The segment of the population that is preocupied with enddays scenarios seem to be the same ones who lost the last election.
Coincidence or sour grapes?
Seems that the poison spewed by the last administration is long acting.

test

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=4489783&page=1

read this

Now go drag Cheney et al before the court and make someone held accountable.

KBR was paid millions in BONUSES for this deadly electrical work.

The right (republicans) are trying to block lawsuits filed by the families of the dead.

No one has been charged with anything.

these men were our best and they were killed by corporate greed as conducted by these companies that are deeply rooted in the republican right. Cheney is STILL ON THE PAYROLL.

You support Cheney and his cronies. You do not support the troops

You support women who hang flags in their windows. That will get your fat but off the couch and on the phone. But our safety is not a concern.

It is painfully obvious to us. Save the GD cookies from your church. We could care less. Get us better protection, get our families back home better care, and my god please if I get wounded, please make sure Walter Reed is not a fate worse than death as it was recently UNDER YOUR WATCH.

You can't spell support

Unless of course you mean campaign contributions to some blow hard corporate connected draft dodger. You know the Republican right. (McCain aside)

And Stumpy is right this is a silly argument as none of this will ever happen. NO ONE is going to take your guns away. That is just nonsense talk coming from political agitators like O'Reilly and Limbaugh.

Ayers did a terrible thing. But how about that nut that ambushed and killed the cops cause he thought they were coming to get his guns recently. And this nut that shot Tiller. All this violence is being carried out NOT by liberals but by the extreme right. Violence begets violence and all I am saying is I would gladly answer for the government if it came to it. And so would a lot of other service men I know.

mooner- your just as crazy as me so I won't even address you other than now. It would be all bad.

Aw heck

100 million firearms owners? We lets eliminate that grossly out of shape and old and you probably got 10 million combat ready individuals. Not a big number against combined arms. And if you think pilots won't fly the missions well your naive. They have pilots ready to drop nuclear munitions in other countries that would ultimately result in retaliation and millions of American deaths right now.

Getting pilots that would fly missions against a bunch of heavily armed nuts on some Mountain Top in Wyoming that have already fired on and killed local police and some federal agents and National Guard troops would be as simple as giving the order. If you don't believe that you are naive.

By the way I am not a liberal democrat. I don't believe in the two party system. And if you check in other stories you will see my comments about desiring to be deployed in the ghettos to fight criminal gangs as well. So I am bi-partisan crazy. I have different views for every issue. Sometimes conservative sometime liberal and sometimes just plain crazy. I don't let anyone tell me how to think.

I hate guns. I don't worry about needing one so....I'm good.

that's what I thought..........

Reality; never accused you of being any political affiliation, let alone Democrat. Quite frankly, I appluad your reluctance to join either of teh two conniving parties that maintain a stranglehold on our political system.

Now, I think you have a massive misconception as to the way such an event would go down. First off, the thought of any "extremist" making an attempt on the President's life out of the blue is unfounded. I doubt anything short of arms bans/confiscations would trigger violent action from any considerable portion the population.

Now, to say that such confiscations are "paranoia" is just as delusional as the people barking about it being a certainty. Looking at the political ideology of most of the current administration, we find that most hold disdain for the concept of armed civilians, many have voiced this disdain, and many others wish to see America disarmed. Attorney General Eric Holder has said this, and President Obama himself has said this in the past, not to mention the incoming administration posted their intent on the whitehouse website under "urban policy" including permanent reinstatement of the ineffective '94 Assault Weapons Ban and a ban on ALL semiautomatics... yup, ALL of them. So of course people are concerned; no administration in history has come to the plate openly toting so much anti-firearms rights sentiment.

I have a holstered gun in my front pocket, you do not. You and I go for a walk on a pedestrian trail in Columbus Ohio. There are other people, joggers, cyclists, etc scattered around, but it's not crowded.

On a particularly wooded stretch, three individuals approach and ask for our wallets. One of them flashes a gun he's holding close to his body. The one with the gun tells us to be quiet and walk off the trail into the woods. They follow close behind.

Whatever's going to happen next....I have a gun in my front pocket in a holster and you do not. Who do you think has a better chance...however slim...of surviving?