No angry mob. No swastikas. Just common sense.

Nothing partisan about this meeting…

It amazes me how suddenly the country is heading in the wrong direction in a matter of months that we have a new president; but the failure to prevent the attack on 9-11, hundreds of billions wasted on a stupid war, illegal wiretaps, torture, the failure in New Orleans, disastrously failed economic policies, the LARGEST expansion of government in the history of this country were basically ignored by these wingnuts who now “want their voices heard”.

No, it was just one giant "KooK"fest. AND THERE WERE NO WHERE NEAR 7,000 PEOPLE IN ATTENDANCE. Either Linda Golz has no sense of crowd size or she went by the phony numbers the KooK speakers kept spewing out. Every time another Kook spoke the crowd miraculously increased by a thousand or two. I guess you've never attended any type of public event before, right Linda? A shut-in have we been?

And several KooKs were running up to people that were engaging others on policy, adult like, and screaming in their faces "God Bless America, God Bless America."

There were no more than 1000 people in attendance, at best. And they were the kookiest of the kooks in the area. Yes, the hard core right fringe that's been duped by corporations that fund groups like Freedom Watch, Dick Armey's modern day "plumbers" outfit, to misrepresent facts and stir up ignorant fools like the ones there last night, were out enmasse protesting against their own best interests.

And then there were also a few of the usual Right-Wing religious fanatics. You know, the "God is on our side" crowd.

All in all it was a "KooK"fest. A "KooK"fest to remember. Especially the speakers, namely Robart and Grendell, who through more red meat to this crowd of crazies than all the Zookeepers in this country in a day.

YOU KOOKS HAD YOUR LITTLE FIRST AMENDMENT PARTY, AS YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO, NOW GO CRAWL BACK IN TO YOUR RACIST OR RELIGIOUS OR BRAINWASHED HOLES WHERE YOU BELONG.

@Pope Sounds like they really got to you. If you don't care for their protest, then why do you get so upset about it?

the pope did you go to school where did you learn to count? IF the local the state took over health care for it's people with all the companies that people work for would pay into the plan wall marts mickey's d and so forth and keep fedral out and your right to chose

They're well informed enough to fear that the country's headed in the wrong direction. What they aren't aware of are the NGO's responsible. AIPAC, the FED, and the CFR, among others, give the government its marching orders, not the POTUS, or congress. Congress doesn't represent itss constituency, but whomever ponies up the most cash; Pharma, and the military industrial complex.

Conservative REPUBLICANT's led by FOX News, Hannity, and Rush. They may speak for themselves, but not the vast majority of True Americans want no part of these Tea Parties. Out of power with a Democrook Congress and President Obama in charge, this is a foolish attempt to influence people to go back to the days of George Bush and the wealthy getting the biggest piece of the pie. I have to laugh at them everytime they are on tv - fools all!!!

at least it wasn't partisan...grendell is a marginalized loon, robart is ostracized from society as represented by the comments on these forums (state road plaza anyone?) and as nmaxx states so clearly...it's odd how obama has totally screwed the country in 7 months, when he started in such a deep hole that he won't be able climb us out by the end of his second term, nor will his successor!

i'd be willing to bet that if the stock market hadn't tanked and obama was putting through the same policies, these wingnuts wouldn't be whining at all.

Caucasian Falls--who woulda thunk it?

I was there to observe, but stayed out on the fringe. Many good things were said, but there was a lot of b. s. too. And by the way, there wasn't any more than two thousand people at the very most. But they all were well behaved.

obama started in such a big hole??????......it was barney frank that dug the hole with "everyone should own a home loans" not worring how they would pay for them...... I say....dont have kids if you cant afford diapers.....why stop at social medicine????????

This isn't about race for heaven's sake. It's about a man who became president, got on a train, and is headed for a huge train wreck! He gave our money to Chrysler, and what does Chrysler do ... build a plant in Mexico ... yeah, that brings a lot of jobs to the U.S. He chastises AIG for attempting to buy company jets, but it's OK for Congress to purchase 5 new planes to take politicians on vacations to the Galapogos Islands! Geez! He's closing Gitmo and putting those terrorists in the U.S. Smart move ... NO? He wants to ruin our health care and take away health care HMO's that seniors pay for for their health care! He makes "stupid" remarks without thinking ... like AARP endorses his health care plan, when AARP has said all along IT DOES NOT! All those democrats in office better rethink their support of this out-of-control president, or they will never be re-elected! I am a registered democrat, but I can truly see this party is ruining everything this country has ever stood for or hoped for! I haven't seen any democratic politicians showing up at these tea parties to gain for support for what they think is right! Has the light bulb suddenly been turned on?

Hmmm, it's a little tough for the demoncritters to bash this article. Seems that the politicians took shots at both parties.

But I see the comp desk manager from vegas was here to count heads at the tea party.

Pope - such thoughtful comments...not.

You liberals just cannot seem to fathom that there are people who disagree with you. All you put forward is 'they were kooks'. Your definition of a kook - conservative, or religious, or untrusting of Washington, or 'anyone who I disagree with'.

DO you have any feedback concerning the substance of their complaints? No - you never do. So, when you can't counter the ideas - you attack the person. Long running Liberal ploy - it is getting very tired and old.

The knee jerk hate for people that are at worst your fellow citizens expressing their legitimate concerns is really appalling..

The people that should be a concern are the misguided that believe that giving more power to the Federal government to control their lives will somehow change things for the better.

For decades Americans have been looted and sold out at an ever accelerating rate by "our" government. We have nearly reached critical mass as those that produce are nearly at parity with those that do not. People have every right and duty to try and get this thing back on track.

@The Pope - I've got to hand it to you, you've got a lot of cajones attending that event. I wouldn't have been able to listen to that drivel for more than 30 seconds without having left in disgust.

@OldManGrump - You stunned me today :)! I've assumed all along you were 1 of the right wing nuts so I quit reading your posts. I'll have to start paying attention again.

Too bad all that energy isn't being used to once again (help) allow farmers to grow industrial hemp.
votehemp.com

Where were all you "patriots" the last eight years. Kiss my grass.

Hey Pope KOOK FEST? REALLY? No what I would say is that it was a group of fine upstanding law abiding citizens voiceing their opinions. By the way, I am sure that everyone there pays for your welfare and medicaid, because obviously that's the kind of guy you are. I was there and I am a hard working entrepreneur who is sick and tired of guys like you with your hand out while your children get free cell phones and the internet that WE PAY FOR!!
Not to mention the free food we supply you through the food stamp program. KOOKS? I wonder who really is the KOOK here? UMMM, Yep, it is you POPE!!!!

America keep organizing against his socialist government we seem to have now and vote out the political parasites.

Mark my words. Obama will be the worst president the U.S. has ever had. He will go past the realm of Jimmy Carter days as bad for America

I thought the Republicans were going to take over this movement, and they did.

Dear Fellow Posters: I infiltrated the "real American" kookfest last night. And what a site it was!!! Kooks Galore...in all their glory. Here is the truth: it was totally partisan.....it included zero people of color.....there were maybe one thousand......the nut cases were full of jingoism....paranoia...fear......and may I say it.......RACIST. Folks....that is what this is all about......this crowdCANNOT and WILL NOT accept a black man driving the proverbial bus. All this garbage is going to backfire in coming elections. KOOKS......YOU ARE OUT NUMBERED. Get used to it.

"the pope" is a left wing plant. There were 7000 . What a great evening. Keep it going!

Wow...some intelligent comments here. Not what I expected. Pope though...please. Decisions need to be based n reality. The problem with many liberals is that they have this unrealistic view of how things should work that has nothing at all to do with how things actually DO work. It is interesting to me that none of these protest type gatherings were happening until the government started to spin into an out of control growth mode. As hated as GW Bush was...he did not spark this kind of response. These "tea parties" are nothing more then people saying "Hey! we do not want a giant government that is involved in every aspect of society. It did not/does not work in Europe and so why would we try it here?" Fundemental changes in our society and way of life should not be rushed. Government needs to listen to the people. Poorly run companies, no matter how big need to fail to make room for what would come up in their wake. Government should NOT be directly involved in healthcare. They are not set up to run anything. Whatever they run...they run poorly. Wake up Pope my friend.

7000 sounds about right. I was there. Pope, I assume you are an atheist basing that observation on your trilogy of hurtful adjectives (RACE, RELIGION, BRAINWASHED) and to call yourself Pope, I'm also going way out on a limb to suggest you might be of a cynical bent. One reason the "KOOKS" kept claiming larger numbers is because the crowd more than doubled between 6PM and 7. Traffic on Rt. 8 off the Broad St. and Portage Trail off ramps were backed up all the way onto the highway. Pope, I don't consider myself a kook. I've voted Democratic straight ticket since 1976. Until now. You want to trust the government that just dropped a trillion dollars or something like that in Iraq to direct your health care? Good luck with that. Obama took how long to pick his pet dog this year? Three times longer than how long he wanted Congress to read and debate a bill that seizes control of Health Care? Everybody, no matter your opinion, ought to read this bill. President Obama has said on multiple occasions he wants to get to a single-payer socialized health program, but can only get there by setting up a transitional framework. Section 142 of HR3200 illustrates what a 'transitional framework' looks like in legislative form.

I have to say that's the gayest patriot hat I've ever seen! If that's the freedom he is fighting for, then more power to 'em!

@Pope
The Cuyahoga Falls Police estimated the crowd size as 7,000 and that was while even more people were streaming in to the event.
There were all political parties represented in the crowd and lots of inspiring speakers. I really doubt that you attended. If you had attended with an open mind and not all the hate you feel... you may have learned something.

I have found that those who shout "racist" the loudest tend to be the real racists....

@ b4icroke~ ...If you continue to carry on like the fools you are.....we will play the "Christian card" on you.......



I believe you liberals always do. You are the first to cry separation of church and state! When ever a person of faith speaks out against something you believe in you are the first to attempt to discredit them and call them religious nuts. You attempt to discredit them by claiming they are only repeating Rush Limbaugh as if just because Limbaugh would agree with their side then it can't be trusted.

Yet...when it comes election time or when you want to garner enough support for your projects who do you turn to...the people of faith!


As for playing the Christian card...sorry, your President beat you to it!

**************

Health-care push renewed

Obama reaches out to religious leaders. Democrats might go it alone

By Charles Babington
Associated Press

Published on Thursday, Aug 20, 2009


After two days of silence on health care, Obama re-engaged Wednesday, urging religious leaders to back his proposals.........

The Cyahoga Falls Police estimated the crowd at 7,000 and that was while there were people still streaming in to the event.
There were people of color there and it was wonderful to see. I wish more would be brave enough to stand up with us.

I attended this Tea Party and regardless of these liberal nuts take on it, there may not have been 7000 people there but more like 6950. Mr Grendell and Don Robart made excellent points which are easily verifiable. It is amazing to see the name callers like "the dope" and "untruth sought" posting here limitedly since Obamas approval rating drops quicker then a helicopter/airplane crash. I am thinking they are embarrassed themselves for backing this BS artist.

It amazes me how the real "kooks" show themselves for what they are. People like Pope, Old Grumpy Man, etc., You guys either are ignorant and have no idea what you are talking about, or you are paid by the liberal unions and George Sauros types to give out false information. You're clueless!

The Tea Party was a peaceful gathering of law abiding citizens who want our country to remain free and the government to stay out of our lives! We want a return to the Constitution and a return to States' Rights! There was no violence like there is at the liberal protests. No windows broken, fires started or trash left on the ground. There were no arrests! There were no police in riot gear like when the libs violently protest! The police that were there were relaxed and smiling and having a great time!

As Grendell said, "I was not born in a Socialist Country and I will not die in a Socialist Country!"

Since its so important for the left wing types on here to report the racial make-up of people involved at this tea party, how many white people were at the Summit Lake Fest last week? Does that make it any less legitimate since it was attended by mostly blacks? Just wondering as thats your own criteria.

It amuses me that you guys get so incredibly angry about people gathering to express their views. Its even funnier that the most people you could ever muster locally during 8 years of war protests was about a hundred.

@blkswn ~ have found that those who shout "racist" the loudest tend to be the real racists....



How true!
There is a saying out there:

If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that gets hit is the one that yelps the loudest

I attended the tea party with my entire family! It was great and I'm sure there were at least 7000 people in attendence. I was inspired and highly motivated to make my voice heard!

I'm not going to say more than that because I would just confuse the liberals with facts and then they will start getting loud (figuratively speaking) and attacking on a personal level.

IT WAS GREAT!!! everyone - supporter and dissenter alike - everyone should have attended.

THE SILENT MAJORITY WILL REMAIN SILENT NO LONGER!

Wow, Robart is a climate change denier. I wonder how the science teachers at the public schools in the Falls feel about that. I wonder if Robart thinks the earth is 6,000 years old.

I attended the tea party with my entire family! It was great and I'm sure there were at least 7000 people in attendence. I was inspired and highly motivated to make my voice heard!

I'm not going to say more than that because I would just confuse the liberals with facts and then they will start getting loud (figuratively speaking) and attacking on a personal level.

IT WAS GREAT!!! everyone - supporter and dissenter alike - everyone should have attended.

THE SILENT MAJORITY WILL REMAIN SILENT NO LONGER!

Dear Black Swine: Where were people of color last night???? You clowns are "real brave" when you are surrounded by your like minded numbskulls like last night. Take that trash down to Howard St. or Arlington and see how fast you cowards run. You are a sick joke. Jingoism and racism at its finest. Nice job.

By the way, I tried to incite the crowd into smashing a few windows, setting some fires and turning over a car or two but those crazy conservatives wouldn't have anything to do with it! They told me to call ACORN!!! because they are the nutty ones!

HA HA HA HA

nmaxxs-- This appears to be the latest liberal tactic,"Georgie did it first."

As my mother used to say,"If Georgie jumped off a roof would you do it too?"

Obama is a disaster. He is bankrupting the country. His deficit spending this year equals a full 4 years under Bush and his stimulus package cost more than the Iraq War did.

We elected an ultra liberal who is a amateur when it comes to executive experience. It's going to be a long four years.

@Truth Sought ~ Take that trash down to Howard St. or Arlington and see how fast you cowards run.



You forgot to mention Firestone Park...I believe that was the area where the white guy got mugged by the gang of hate crime Obama supporters while chanting that it's a black mans world.

Truth sought, you don't get out much do you? Howard Street and "Arlington"
(there's a north and south, sir) are still pretty diverse. Again, why does racial make-up matter ? Like I asked before, does an event attended mostly by African Americans get your same scrutiny and disdain?

How many black people were at any of the left's war protests at the federal building over the last 8 years? Does that mean it wasn't a valid protest and they are all racists? Just using your reasoning.

@truth sought Why are you trying so hard to make this a race thing? You asked black swan "where were the people of color last night?" My first response to that would be.. were YOU there? How do you know there were no people of color there? Some of the other posters on here who WERE THERE, said there were people of color in attendance.. I am sure they were a small minority but none the less some were there. Or are you like that person from Florida who when Obama won the election said "Now I won't have to worry about paying my mortgage" i.e., I want all the government handouts I can get my hands on.

Some government is necessary...more power needs to be handed back to the states however. For example...if not for the DEA and support by the national government industrial hemp would be growing right now in many states thus generating untold tax revenue, jobs and at the same time helping clean our polluted waterways and environment in general. The economic and environmental benefits would then translate into social benefits...money for schools, efficient transportation systems and more. Energy needs to be refocused and channeled together to break the ever increasing stranglehold being put on common folk. Time to forget all the labels and work together. Too funny modeliste...awhile ago I asked a guy how old he thought the earth was...he said he guessed 4000 yrs old...his wife replied, 'yea, that sounds about right'. What would we do without the church?

This gathering accomplished nothing.

Battersea:

I always thought it was silly to ban the growing of hemp, just because the farmers might hide some marijuana in their crops. Like most things, it was likely a major corporation like Monsanto (think cotton) that steered that legislation.

@ the FatPainter After two days of silence on health care, Obama re-engaged Wednesday, urging religious leaders to back his proposals.........

OF COURSE HE CALLED ON RELIGIOUS IDIOTS TO HELP OUT.....MAYBE YOU COULD SEND SOME OF THAT MONEY YOU SEND TO ERNEST OR JIMMY EVERY WEEK TO PAY FOR IRAQ!! MAYBE IF YOU REPUBLICAN FOOLS HAD A CLUE, WE COULD GET THROUGH THIS "BUSH CREATEDTRAGEDY", BAILING OUT HIS CRONIES, AND MOVE FORWARD TO A BETTER WAY OF LIFE INSTEAD OF YOUR PARANOIA ABOUT A BLACK MAN RUNNING THE COUNTRY!

Folks, please be forward thinkers and not always dwell on the past.

W did some good things as PRES. and he also allowed some thing that hurt our country (with 20/20 hindsight, we see that).

The democratic congress has been in control since 2006, so they are equally to blame for our economy that tanked in late 2008. In fact, financial laws passed in 1999 lead to our housing problem (Clinton was Pres. then - but Repubs had a big say in congress - both to blame).

Pres. Obama has / had an opportunity to start with a clean slate when he won with so much support. He is now going in the wrong direction and needs to be held accountable (bailouts, stimulus, healthcare overhaul). People voicing their opinion is holding him accountable.

Pres. is on a slippery slope, but he could make a wise decision and back away from some of these socialist leanings. We still need to fix healthcare (remove pre-existing condition clauses, create exchanges or groups that can help bring down cost, implement tort reform, etc) without overhauling the entire system.

I will give Pres. Obama credit for attempting to tackle this healthcare problem, when the past administration did "nothing".

It's hard to beleive you could get 7000 kooks in the same place at the same time, but it happened.
Go figure!

Nice to see the anti-white racism in the comments.
"Caucasian Falls" "white trash"
Law-abiding citizens peacefully gathering, 'typical white people', as Prez Obama says.

grubby said:

"Since its so important for the left wing types on here to report the racial make-up of people involved at this tea party, how many white people were at the Summit Lake Fest last week?"


The better question is why do the suburban Liberals constantly play the race angle when they themselves live a life segregated from other races?

@akron Jr said {{It's hard to beleive you could get 7000 kooks in the same place at the same time, but it happened.
Go figure!}}

Interesting choice of words, given others said the same sort of thing back during the days of the Vietnam protests. Only difference was.. your "kooks" were bent on creating civil disturbances whilst the "tea party goers" were all peaceful.

modeliste--I hate to call someone a fool, but your posting about global warming seems to warrant it.

It the science teachers have looked into global they would teach the science of it and the shortcomings (which are many).

Here's the science. The temperature from 1975 to 1988 went up significantly as did CO2. We know that CO2 is a greenhouse gas that will increase the average temperature. Everytime you double the amount of CO2, the temperature will go up approximately 1.2 degrees C. This increase is logrithmic in nature that is a molecule of CO2 will increase the temperature by X while the next one will increase it by X-y. Both sides agree about this.

The difference comes in the area of feedback (you'll hear alarmist talk about a tipping point). AGW supporter see the feedback as positive and large. The models used by the IPCC called for 1 degree C increase due to CO2 to become from 3 to 10 degrees C. They tend to use the factor of 3 and all the "it's even worse than we thougth is modelers using a higher number."

Skeptics say the feedback if positive is small and it might even be negative.

Truth Sought,

Speaking of being outnumbered, don't be intimidated by those who offer their employees health insurance.

Forgiven, well said.

OUR FOUNDING FATHERS ALL HAD SLAVES

I'd like to do a "Dyer" and replace every instance of "liberal" with "conservative" and see how these posts play out. Funny how things change when you are suddently on the losing side - I think the Democrats handled being the minority party with much more class than the Repubs. It hasn't even been a year and they are crying "unfair"

What a bunch of weenies!! Just lock your TV on Fox "news" and throw away the remote, but leave the rest of us alone!!

TOJ, so true, one of my lifelong mysteries...limousine liberals calling eveybody racist while they routinely practice it. More subtle maybe, but still exists.

This gathering accomplished nothing.


Nothing but a bunch of sound bites and video clips for FOX "news"

Dear Far West Side: Can you read and comprehend??? I was there last night. I stated that in a previous post. 7000 people my a$###. Learn to count. I know that 4th grade education is failing you. It was not bi=partisan......just a bunch of angry whites hepped up on HATE.

Magpie,

I agree with your theory and you just proved it. According to you, to dissent is frowned upon.

From what was reported, I don't dispute much of what was said, but I disagree with the anti-cap and trade statements. That's just the cost of producing things. Like any economist (or Loren Eberly) can tell you, this just aims to capture the societal costs into the cost of the product. The complaint about equal responsibility from India and China is legitimate, but that should be fought aside from the US doing its share. Quite frankly, the list of gripes with China is long and I'm not talking the general issue of free trade. Trade is good. Intervention is bad.

@b4icroke ~ OF COURSE HE CALLED ON RELIGIOUS IDIOTS TO HELP OUT.....MAYBE YOU COULD SEND SOME OF THAT MONEY YOU SEND TO ERNEST OR JIMMY EVERY WEEK TO PAY FOR IRAQ!!


Well first of all let me tell you that I do not support Ernest of Jimmy.

Yes, I do give to my church, which BTW is none of your business. My money that is given to my church not only helps run the church, it also is used to help out the needy who come for assistance. You know...the place you perhaps run to when you need some help on your utility bills or some food to tie you over till the next government check comes in. The same place you call around Thanksgiving and Christmas while looking for someone else to feed your family and give your children a Christmas because you know how to 'work the system'.


Why don't you take some of the money you spend on the pagers and cell phones, big screen TVs and pay per view and give it to those who you think need the Obama Socialized health care?

And as for the war...Congress could have stopped it at any time. Stop the funding and you stop the war! No President can spend one thin dime without the approval of Congress. The Dems had congress since 2006 and now have a Dem POTUS yet the war sill goes on. What's that tell ya?

Black Man running the country? I can think of several black men I would love to have as President...just not your guy!

Truth Sought,

Were you keeping tracking of the ins and outs to properly account for turnover? The 7,000 people didn't have to be there at the same time, just over the course of the event. Maybe some of the people had to leave early since they were business owners and had to go home and review insurance plans that they're going to offer their employees in 2010.

"Democrats handled being the minority party with much more class than the Repubs. It hasn't even been a year and they are crying "unfair"

Yes they did, posters of Bush as Hitler and calling US soldiers terrorists that raid homes in the middle of the night, Jihadi insurgents who blow up women and children "freedom fighters" , that was classy magpie.

@truth Sought SO I see, I stand corrected so you WERE there .. Now answer me this, why did the Cuyahoga Falls police count the number at 7000 while you, the all knowing expert on all things mathematic, saw the number as much less <1000>.. A difference of 6,000 from the official estimate. My guess is that the number of people there shocked and alarmed you and you are going to do whatever you can, just like the MSM, to belittle, bad mouth, and trash talk.

Oh, since you are the mathematical expert, please explain the latest polling numbers on the percent conservative vs. liberal in this country and the amazing fall of Mr. Obama's favorable ratings. I am sure with your vast knowledge of number crunching that you can enlighten us ignorant masses as to the true meanings of those polling numbers.

I don't think you could fit 7,000 people in that space -- even, as some of the proto-fascist commentators suggest here, they came during the entire run of the event.

Truth Sought
mogadore, oh

Posted 09:24 AM, 08/20/2009 Dear Black Swine: Where were people of color last night???? You clowns are "real brave" when you are surrounded by your like minded numbskulls like last night. Take that trash down to Howard St. or Arlington and see how fast you cowards run. You are a sick joke. Jingoism and racism at its finest. Nice job.

This dude is stopping just short of bringing out the N word. And he is calling the rally racist? I believe this was a widely publicized event and everyone was invited. i don;t think they even put up a roped off area for the coloreds so as not to have them mingling amongest the rest of us. Truth Sought must be a member of the KKK with his line of thinking.

farwest side,

What is the link to those polls?

This was a fabulous event, exciting and inspiring.
Everyone was friendly & pleasant & polite.

But I must say that most of the comments posted here from the far-left people are so full of hate for their fellow citizens that it literally scares me. Is freedom of speech only to be enjoyed by liberals? If so, why weren't you all there en masse protesting us or supporting your own views & the Obama admin??

Why do you attack those who disagree with your VIEWPOINTS in such a personal & hateful manner? Is it because you can't come up with facts to make your arguments FOR Obama's "accomplishments" other than to blame Bush? You fail to understand that many of us did not support Bush 100%, (rarely does anyone agree with another person to that degree) & don't consider ourselves to be "R"s.

It's NOT the color of his skin at all. It's that he PROMISED transparency, no lobbyists, he promised he would "Go 'line by line' over earmarks to make sure money is being spent wisely", it's that he wants to rush in a 1200 page HC bill that NO ONE understands & would affect our lives FOREVER in 2 weeks but took 6 mo to choose a pet dog! It's that congress is flaunting their actions in our faces on national TV, telling us they 'don't even bother to read the $$$$ bills, that they don't understand them & sign them anyway!

It's that they aren't even accepting calls or responding to letters asking for discussions. THEY WORK FOR US!! What would happen to your job (lol-do you even have one?)if YOUR employer repeatedly called you in for a meeting & you failed to comply?

My question to you is: Why weren't you there with your own signs exercising your freedom of speech? Why are you only hiding behind an anonymous online ID/avatar? Where are the liberal support rallies being held? I haven't seen a one! (Other than maybe a few ACORN-paid-&-bussed-in-to town hall meetings.)

To those saying why weren't people protesting under Bush..They did. It was either not reported or under reported by by the corporate media. and at other times, the police would come in and violate their first amendment rights. When the 'right' people use their first amendment rights the corporate media reports it and over estimates the numbers and the police respect their first amendment rights.

@Real Voice of Treason:

I don't think it's racism.

It's just that the views expressed at these events don't attract the racial minorities.

Maybe the message isn't inclusive enough ...

---------------.
...Rayy Wrote... "Caucasian Falls--who woulda thunk it?"...
---------------.

Caucasian Falls??? Are you still living in the 60's??? Obviously you know nothing of Cuyahoga Falls today!!.. Yes, Cuyahoga Falls has many wonderful people who are Caucasian, and Yes, Cuyahoga Falls has many wonderful people who are African-American. (That includes my family) And if you would have attended the Tea Party in Cuyahoga Falls, and looked around, you would have see both Caucasians and African-Americans united together.

---------------.
..Truth Sought Wrote "Here is the truth: it was totally partisan.....it included zero people of color"...
---------------.

Really?? Zero people of color??? Really???? Your comment is an insult to every African-American who attended last nights Tea Party... How dare you!!!

toj, search gallup or rasmussen polls, you'll see it there. Even if you don't believe polls are accurate the numbers are still pretty bad for President Obama.

@TOJ

Presidential favorable ratings

http://tinyurl.com/5tnd2b

Alot of these posts remind me of the joke about putting someone in a round room and telling them to find the corner. No wonder the country is in trouble. I'm also reminded of a professor that said one of the biggest problems in the US is that everyone gets to vote...no zhit.

@AlanJ:

I was there. The only color I saw was booth-tans ...

It always amazes me how racist the liberals are in America. Then they turn around and accuse others of what the libs themselves are guilty of. I read the hate-filled posts of people who were not even at the tea party and pretend that they know what went on when in reality they are just spewing their hate-filled ideological speech.

I truly feel sorry for you guys because you live in such a great country and you waste your freedom living like a lapdog wanting the government to do everything for you and you are willing to give up your freedom in order to have daddy government take care of you!

Grow up and learn to take care of yourself. Rugged individualism is what made this country great.

We seem to be getting two different views of the event as it relates to those in attendance. Does anyone have any verifiable pictures that they can share which can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their were people of color in attendance.

I agree with Jade. You know how far your "voice" reached? Only to the guy next to you that most likely shares your point of view anyway. Oh but you did get in the nationally acclaimed ABJ.

CHL.

Uh oh, don't you know that phrase "rugged individual" sets off this crowd?

I know there is a simple answer ot this question but I just haven't see/heard it: why was the "Akron Tea Party" held in Cuyahoga Falls?

Congratulations to my friends in Northeastern Ohio
for successfully bringing our message to the public !
Evidence of the misinformation out there is right
here in comments...but these events are helping
to educate..compliments of the formerly silent
majority. Thanks for all your hard work!
Look at Gallup polls, nielson ratings, rasmussen..
Approval ratings, and the people coming to these events.
Our message to Washington DC is loud and clear.
Keep up the great work!

Single Payer Canadian System:

"The Vancouver Coastal Health Authority is planning to shut down nearly one-quarter of its operating rooms and cancel thousands of elective surgeries between Sept. 1 and March 31 in a bid to bridge a $90-million budget gap, NDP health critic Adrian Dix charged yesterday.

Mr. Dix, MLA for Vancouver-Kingsway, said documents leaked to him by “health authority sources” propose cutting 6,250 surgeries, about 24 per cent of all scheduled procedures, to the end of fiscal 2009-10.

“What they're doing is deferring these surgeries until the next fiscal year to save money. It's going to increase wait times for people, and thousands of medically necessary procedures won't be performed,” he said. . . . . .

From http://www.TheGlobeAndMail.com/news/national/british-columbia/

A little socialism is good for you now and then. What is intrinsically wrong with learning to share? What's wrong with sanctioning rampant greed and selfishness? I guess I'm coming out here - Yep, I'm a socialist. Or a commie. Or a pinko. Whatever you wanna call it. That doesn't make me anti-American or anti-government, either. It doesn't make me anti-Christian or a pagan, either. I'm a good-hearted, America-loving, God-fearing commie. Whodathunkit?

''I was not born in a socialist country, and I will not die in a socialist country,'' Republican state Sen. Tim Grendell of Geauga County said. ''And neither will my children.''
The crowd roared its approval.
He said it is ''all American'' to get involved in government and let politicians know what policy changes voters would like to see.
''It's called the First Amendment,'' Grendell said.
Instead, he charged, the government is trying to keep the people ignorant and apathetic.
Grendell also urged the crowd to support strong states' rights and to protect their freedoms.
''I want my country back,'' he said.”

You are nothing more than a charlatan 2 faced R.I.N.O. whose strings are controlled by someone else.

Robart said that former President George W. Bush's bailout ''has been a total failure'' and that President Barack Obama's stimulus bill
‘‘Has been worse.''

Where were you in this constructive criticism for the last two or so years?


He promised the crowd that ''cap-and-trade will be the largest tax increase in our history.'' Robart said it should be renamed ''the China-India stimulus bill'' and accused it of being ''based solely on a myth called global warming”

Can you tell us Donnie how much taxes have increased in the Falls since you became it's commander in creep?

I want you to all shut up and take a good hard look at the federal government and yourselves. None of you should be casting any stones because none of you are innocent. I am so sick of hearing "oh, democrats this.." and "oh, republicans that.." Both sides are just as guilty as the other. Both republicans and democrats are guilty on the same levels of corruption, greed, lies, and circumnavigating the law. Republican congressmen and members of the senate don't want to give up their health care in lue of what they are trying to give us. Get real. If the republicans were in charge we would still be in a mess of deep s**t.

I was truely dissapointed after attending last night. This event was far from non-partisan. I could hardly hear what was being said on stage over the a hole behind me screaming "NOBAMA!" and "OBAMA SUCKS!" He sounded like a screaming child. I turned around and asked him to stop. He got in my face and started sceaming even louder so I told him he is not getting any point acrossed and his shouting hold no validity. He told me if I do not like it then I can leave and continued to shout louder and louder and moved closer until his mouth was practically in my ear. At that point I just moved and went down closer to the stage when I realized the mindless dribble being said pushing republican agendas, not non-partisanship or bi-partisonship. I heard comments about god, and media, and socialism, democrats this and democrats that. I heard very little about the corruption on both sides of the field. I heard very little about health care other than "WE DON'T WANT IT!" I heard a lot of shouting about Obama. But where was any intelligence? Both sides are just as guilty and I couldn't believe some of the propaganda. We are just going to keep going back and forth. Before it was Bush and his corruption, now it is Obama and his cronies. What makes you think this pattern will change? So the republicans get into office and everything is fixed? Get real.

Who really wants more government, what have they ever ran that has been successful.

Wake up sheeple. I had a friend who has a cousin who knew a dude who went. There were 700,000 there and the mainstream liberal media is lying.

Modeliste and I wonder if you have any idea what you are talking about?

Here's a little quiz for you.

The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is

38%
3.8%
.38%
.038%
.0038%

CO2 has been increasing significantly since the 1940s (70 years). During this time period how many years have seen increases in temperature?

70
50
35
25
0

What is the "footprint" we should see if CO2 is causing global warming?

Which one of the statements below is false?

1. CO2 is a greenhouse gas that warms the climate.
2. One molecule of CO2 will warm the earth by X. The next molecule won't warm it as much
3. Nature contributes about 95% of the CO2 going into the atmosphere each year.
4. Ice core studies have shown CO2 and temperature go up in lock step which indicates that CO2 is causing global warming.
5. Sunspot are a significant factor in the earth's climate.

@CHL said, and blkswn warned about:"Rugged individualism is what made this country great."

HAH!!!

A B-movie Western, Dutch Reagan fantasy!!

BWAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!

Who were these "rugged individualists" you dreamers are always talking about?

BWAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!

I want you to all shut up and take a good hard look at the federal government and yourselves. None of you should be casting any stones because none of you are innocent. I am so sick of hearing "oh, democrats this.." and "oh, republicans that.." Both sides are just as guilty as the other. Both republicans and democrats are guilty on the same levels of corruption, greed, lies, and circumnavigating the law. Republican congressmen and members of the senate don't want to give up their health care in lue of what they are trying to give us. Get real. If the republicans were in charge we would still be in a mess of deep s**t.

I was truely dissapointed after attending last night. This event was far from non-partisan. I could hardly hear what was being said on stage over the a hole behind me screaming "NOBAMA!" and "OBAMA SUCKS!" He sounded like a screaming child. I turned around and asked him to stop. He got in my face and started sceaming even louder so I told him he is not getting any point acrossed and his shouting hold no validity. He told me if I do not like it then I can leave and continued to shout louder and louder and moved closer until his mouth was practically in my ear. At that point I just moved and went down closer to the stage when I realized the mindless dribble being said pushing republican agendas, not non-partisanship or bi-partisonship. I heard comments about god, and media, and socialism, democrats this and democrats that. I heard very little about the corruption on both sides of the field. I heard very little about health care other than "WE DON'T WANT IT!" I heard a lot of shouting about Obama. But where was any intelligence? Both sides are just as guilty and I couldn't believe some of the propaganda. We are just going to keep going back and forth. Before it was Bush and his corruption, now it is Obama and his cronies. What makes you think this pattern will change? So the republicans get into office and everything is fixed? Get real.

----------------------
farwest side wrote... We seem to be getting two different views of the event as it relates to those in attendance. Does anyone have any verifiable pictures that they can share which can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their were people of color in attendance.
----------------------

This is an excellent suggestion... Thank you!

The only thing that some of the left wingers spew is name calling and dismissal of people who don't agree with them. Some of you don't seem really bright. I'm not saying that all dems are bad people. in fact I love a couple of them.

Well said, Cob. Corruption is a huge problem, and it doesn't matter if the person's a donkey or an elephant. I've been saying that for years. Dem or Rep, every well-to-do senator/congressman/mayor/representative has money, came from money, and is in the business--first and foremost--of keeping that money. Clean or dirty money, it doesn't matter to them. As long as they keep it in their pockets at any cost. It's nauseating. Nothing will ever change until that changes.

Truth Sought?? I was there from 6 to 10 pm , I didnt see ONE "angry white hepped up on HATE."

To end the socialism, we must put a stop to all medicare, medicaid, and social security payments. Stop these immediately and send a bill to all those who have received socialist money. Then send a check to all of those who have contributed in the past to these programs. All government spending on these social programs must stop immediately. My mom may have to move in with me, but at least I will save the $200 a month Uncle Sam takes in the form of socialist Social Security.

Sorry for the double posting.

All of you, please type the Pledge of Allegiance along with me to help take back reel America.

@boston hts guurl:

I was, too, and there were a few haters there.

Must be a difference in definition. "Real" and "fact" don't seem to be words you have much truck with ...

Oh.., and one more thing. While we're on the topic. I'm sick of people equating Christianity and conservative politics. As if I have to be both conservative AND Christian. Stop and ask what Christ would have thought. Didn't he say "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven" and to "Give up everything and follow me"? I am by no means a Bible thumper, but give me a break. There's nothing Christian or even morally positive about a standpoint which encourages greed, corruption and selfishness at the expense of others. So quit equating Christianity with the "American Way of Life" - they became mutually exclusive around the time greed and McDonalds hamburgers became "All American."

Khen,

Sure, don't forget the corresponding contributions made by each citizens to date. Both are calculated with interest and the net distributed/charged from there. Sounds good to me.

Remember, that money came from somewhere (a paycheck), so your satire is a little off the mark.

Hey "iamcob" your comment "
I heard very little about health care other than "WE DON'T WANT IT!"

That is correct!! and what we are doing is trying to let our elected officials know what we want and they need to represent what WE want not what THEY think we need. They seem to think we are too stupid to know what is best for us so they will save us from ourselves. I trust myself on what I want from healthcare more than letting our national government decide for me. And one last thing, how are we going to pay for it??????

First of all we all agree that the ABJ is definitely a liberal newspaper, one strongly in favor of Obama and the democratic agenda .. yes?

Given that fact.. if there had been "haters" in the crowd you would think that the ABJ would have prominently reported said fact. Given that the article makes no mention of it makes me believe that those saying there were racists and haters in the crowd were seeing the event from a very very jaundiced view.

AmericanWoman,

"Corruption is a huge problem, and it doesn't matter if the person's a donkey or an elephant. I've been saying that for years. Dem or Rep, every well-to-do senator/congressman/mayor/representative has money, came from money, and is in the business--first and foremost--of keeping that money. Clean or dirty money, it doesn't matter to them. As long as they keep it in their pockets at any cost."

These are the same people in charge of operating the biggest de facto charity in the world. To your earlier point, there's nothing wrong with intrinsically learning to share. It's just a matter of do you want the people referenced above acting as agents between donor and donee?

AmericanWoman - The issue with corruption is that it costs too much money to actually detect and remedy the solution. For example, in 1999 or 2000 (can't remember exact year) the Department of Defense spent $1 billion on official travel. Fair enough, large military and paying for transfers and official trips gets expensive. However, the DoD spent $1.2 billion that year auditing the $1 billion spent in travel.

Greed and corruption exist in government agencies, programs, and in the private sector. DoD has a large number of problems associated with fraud, waste, and abuse. Welfare fraud and abuse are common and you only have to google Enron or Madoff to see examples of corruption in the private sector.

AmericanWoman,

As an addendum, would you have wanted GWB's HHS Dept in charge of operating a public plan?

The_Original_Jason - Wasn't satire. Did you type the pledge of allegiance along with me? Give all contributions (plus interest) to everyone who has contributed to those programs. Uncle Sam can even have back my GI Bill money.

Send a bill for all services/payments received (plus interest) to all of those who have received them. Socialism will end and we will have a real AMERICA!!! USA! USA! USA!

@farwest side:

The ABJ reporter was one person among a thousand who popped a couple of pics from a balcony overlooking the scene, made enough notes to write the article and booked.

There were a bunch of more moderate types there last night, and I didn't see a word from any of them.

Like I posted earlier, there were kooks and haters there, they just didn't dominate anything but their own minds.

They weren't relevant.

USA#1, I don't want the government's health care plan. But there are reasons why I don't want it. And those reasons need to be addressed otherwise it makes you seem like a bunch of feral shouting people without any sense of reasoning. You cannot get your point acrossed by beating someone with it. Make an well formulated argument and inform the people. Rally the people on knowledge not shouting and propaganda. Most of these people who are shouting no absolutely nothing about this, or at least not enough to make a reasonable argument of a 3rd or 4th grade level. How can you support or protest something in which you don't know. I know why I don't want it and I would like to hear the reasons why Government health care should be forced upon us in well mannered public setting. Last night was the perfect oppertunity to educate those who oppose Obama's health plan.. but no, there was absolutely none of that. So please continue to defend your stance on the pros of ignorance.

Sen. Grendell says he wasn't born in a socialist country.

I'm sure he's right.

But he was born after the 1930's. This means that FDR's social security, unemployment compensation, etc., etc., do not constitute socialism, per Sen. Grenell.

Sen. Grendell says he won't die in a socialist country. Again I'm sure he's right.

For the last 45 years we've had a single payer medical system for every American over the age of 65 and for every disabled American. It's LBJ's Medicare.

So if Social Security, unemployment compensation, and Medicare aren't socialist, what's the big deal with OBama's Health Care for All proposal? It doesn't sound like socialism to me. Rather, it sounds like common-sense.

And look at what Obama plans to do now -

"Last year I set a goal to add 5.5 million new minority homeowners in America by the end of the decade. That is an attainable goal; that is an essential goal. And we're making progress toward that goal. In the past 18 months, more than 1 million minority families have become homeowners. (Applause.) And there's more that we can do to achieve the goal. The law I sign today will help us build on this progress in a very practical way.

Many people are able to afford a monthly mortgage payment, but are unable to make the down payment. So this legislation will authorize $200 million per year in down payment assistance to at least 40,000 low-income families. These funds will help American families achieve their goals, and at the same time, strengthen our communities."

Perfect place to wear an "I'm with Stupid" shirt. Would not matter which direction the arrow was pointing

@iamcomb said:"Most of these people who are shouting no absolutely nothing about this, or at least not enough to make a reasonable argument of a 3rd or 4th grade level."

I noticed that last night. Many of the "poster children" couldn't make an intelligent argument for their position or were basing their opinions on already discredited blather.

Which was the exact opposite of conversations I had with other people just there to participate.

Wonder why ...

Khen,

Like I said, your satire is off the mark. But don't let that stop you from contributing.

iamcob

The problem is that our officials won't listen long enought to reason, all they will understand is if there is resistance it might mean I will not be re-elected.

America was ruined between 1992 and 2000 and then starting again in 2008. 2000 to 2008 were the Golden Era of America. Democrats ruin everything.

The_Original_Jason - Why do you hate America so much? Why don't you want to end socialism with me. Are you French?

@Khen said:"2000 to 2008 were the Golden Era of America."

We must have been in a different America, oh delusional one.

Wake Up Sheeples. Acorn is going to make everyone get gay married and then send old people to Zombie death panels. Zombies, people. Zombies. If that isn't socialism, I don't know what is.

nottheusual1 - Not sure what you were doing, but my HAL stock went from $5 a share to $55 a share by mid-2008. USA! USA! USA!

Khen,

Seriously, this is amateur hour stuff. Not funny and not poignant. Not a good combination when you are attempting satire.

All of you that are stating that this was a partisan tea party were obviously not there. The speakers talked against Bush as well as Obama. You libs had no problem calling Bush a Nazi and saying he was Hitler but when it comes BO you have very thin skin.

The only difference is that BO is a Socialist by very definition. Bush was the complete opposite of a Nazi. But then again, facts never get in the way when you are talking to a lib. You guys make stuff up and then confuse yourselves with your lies.

I love the fact that you libs are spewing hatred and lies about last night and pretending like you were there. It just goes to show how we are getting under your thin skin. You can't handle the fact that there was a family oriented, peaceful, demonstration against Socialism by a group of law abiding patriotic Americans who love our country. We didn't need police in riot gear at our demonstration like you guys do at yours.

And yes, we are the rugged individuals who have supported ourselves without the gubbermnt giving us a handout and holding us by the hand. We have worked hard all of our lives and taken care of ourselves and don't feel like having the government steal our money through taxes and give it to people who sit on their duff and collect welfare! I share my money with whom I chose to share it not who the government tells me to share it with. If the term rugged individual upsets you then too bad!

Dear Khen: You are the poster child........for.............K----O---O----K!!!!!

Khen, stfu.

The_Original_Jason - Appreciate the editorial advice. Since the level of political discourse in our country has devolved to who can call the other person a Socialist/Nazi/Fascist louder, I will reserve my right as a freedom loving American to just say whatever regardless of poignancy or relevance.

USA#1, that is just not true. No one has publicly made a public and intelligent statement. No one has held any rally's with substance. They are just going to ignore you and think less of you if you scream and shout. You wonder why the government feels the need to be our mommy, but you don't get that when we act like a bunch of screaming toddlers that is how we will be treated. Wise up, get educated and fight them with hard facts and information. Your petty squabbling will not do a thing. It should not be about being re-elected. We need to create term limits and get the career politicians out of office to avoid that all together. Just, wise up.

@CHL Holder:

BWAAAAHAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!

Somebody, hand me a hanky, would ya ........

BWAAAAHAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!

Truth Sought,

Hint.....it's sarcasm. Trust me, I can understand why it doesn't make sense, but he/she is attempting satire. It's almost like Larry the Cable Guy opening for Bill Maher.

iamcob, you're right. Term limits at EVERY level of government is really the only solution to the political quagmire we are in right now. Getting away from a two-party system is another thing that needs to be done, we shouldn't have bad and worse be our only options when it comes to the polls, time for some fresh blood.

The_Original_Jason - It is not satire. Satire takes too much work. I think caricature would be a better term. Once you show me your real birth certificate, I will believe that you aren't French.

My goodness I CANNOT WAIT for the ENTIRE baby boomer generation to die off so our country can get back to normal and gain some credibility in the Free World once again.

CHL Holder, are you kidding me? Quit being a hypocrite, you are doing the same hate spewing and bashing that you are accusing the democrats of. It was most definitely a right wing rally, far from non-partisan. The real non-partisan moments came few and far between. There were no intellectual arguments being made. Just a bunch of rally to get people yelling for the cameras. There was no factual information being discussed. I don't believe in following party lines because it only furthers the ignorance in this country which is already sky high.

Glad to see everyone's not mindless, kool aid drinking sheep!

Untill both sides learn to give and take this country will never move forward. I have a hard time watching when this win at all cost mentality is the prevailing thought process of both parties. Neither is 100% right or wrong. Just tired of the bs. Quoting Jack."This COUNTRY needs an enema!"

iamcob, well said. Did you happen to read the Whole Foods CEO's ideas about health care reform? They seemed pretty level headed and doable. People on the left went crazy that he dared question Dear Leader, but it was a logical plan. I think we need more input from people in the field or people with real world experience, and it should not be rushed through the system just to get it signed...what the h was up with that?

Wish I could have atteneded last night but my son had a football scrimmage. I did listen to some of the event on 640 AM.

And, I see the left leaning folks here are spewing the same ole garbage they do every day. No wonder no one takes your views seriously. Someone differs in opinion from you and what do Pope, Truth and the others do? ATTACK. But, it's the Liberal way and we should all be used to it by now.

If you look at Tim Grendell's campaign contributions, you will see that 3/4ths of his donations come from the Insurance Industry.

I think him being there has less to do with wanting his country back, and more to do with doing the bidding of his campaign contributors, looking our for their back, not yours or mine.

http://tinyurl.com/l74zlc

Tin foil hat on to protect me from Acorn Zombie Death Rays distorting my thought process.

The bottom line with the whole debate is that if it is federal money being spent by "your" guy on issues and things you believe are valid, then it is fine. If the money is being spent on things or people you disagree with, then it is wrong.

Compare $2 billion a year handed out to Faith-based programs in contrast to $75,000 given to an "alternative" theater in San Francisco. Depending on your point of view, the one expense is valid and the other is viewed as evil. Ignore the fact that efficacy or value added by either expense is ever debated.

The argument now is getting much nastier because we are being divided into "real American" or "socialist/fascist/nazi/Kenyan" categories.

You have a very vocal group screaming, "we want our country back." I am not sure, apart from a democratic election, how they lost "their" country.

We have elections every four years, if you lose, the other guys get to make the rules. You can complain. You can vote them out of office. Screaming that somehow being subjected to rule from another party is tyranny is just wrong.

These people have their heads buried in the sand. They want things to go back to how they were 25 years ago, when corporations had money to burn and skyscrapers were going up everywhere.

Now no one has money. The rich corporations of the past are struggling to survive or have filed for bankruptcy. I should know, I work at one of those corporations. Each year our benefits shrink as well as the number of employees as people are slowly laid off to try to save every penny possible.

Companies can't afford to be the sole provider of great health benefits and lifetime retirement funds. There's no escaping it, if the government doesn't step in to provide benefits, then YOU will no longer have a job (because you'll be laid off or the company will fold) and therefore no longer have ANY benefits.

nottheusual1:
Now there is some intelligent discussion. You never let me down! Every time you open your mouth you prove my point! Thanks!

iamcob:
Obviously you are blinded by your ideological bent toward Socialism. I understand! There was no discussion of parties during the event. We are against big government no matter who is in charge but what you fail to understand is that BO is in charge now therefore BO will be getting the heat! You can't blame Bush for the next 3-1/2 years. If BO and the dems can't handle the heat they should get out of the kitchen.
There is no hypocrisy on my part. All who know me know that I have been against big federal spending since the Reagan Administration. The only hypocrisy I'm hearing is coming from you if you continue to say it was a "right wing rally" and there were "no intellectual arguments" made. You either werent' there and are lying or you were there and are lying. One or the other. Either way, you're lying!
What happened last night, I will say again, was a peaceful demonstration by law abiding citizens who love their country and do not want to see it destroyed by a bunch of sniveling children who can't take care of themselves. Why bring down a whole country in order to give money to people who refuse to work? It doesn't make sense. Quit drinking the kool-aid!

BeerSteeler,

Being a Steeler fan, I understand why your math is subpar (save the Browns stuff, I know). Table 2 is clearly labeled "Top 15 Industries." When looking at Table 2 (entitled "Top 15 Industries"), you'll see that "Insurance" amounts to $10,400, which is 3.4% of $308,676. $10,000 of that $10,400 came from Joseph Laconi, retired of ProCentury Insurance, a property and casualty insurer.

Other than that, you might be on to something....

If another right-wing nutjob says "kool-aid" once more time, Im going to nominate it to Yahoo! as the most annoyingly STUPID overused phrase of this decade.

@CHL Holder

Nobody is "bringing the country down"

Quit drinking the Kool-Aid!

@CHL Holder:

Starting to hear crickets on that request for a few salient examples of those rugged individualists you keep identifying yourself with.

Step up or step back ...

@CHL Holder

I expect you to not use Medicare OR collect Social Security when you turn 65. You wouldnt want to be a socialist and bring the country down, would you?

Quit drinking the Kool-Aid!!

Increasing taxes and bigger government are not the answers to this country's problems. That is what these rallies are intended to bring attention to, and it's working!!!

Die baby boomers, please die off soon!! I want my country back!! Quit drinking the Kool-Aid!!!!!!

CHL Holder, Obviously you did not read my above posts in their entirety. Stop putting words in my mouth. I don't follow Obama and the democrats. You, sir, are ignorant. I don't follow party lines, they only make problems into messes. I never once blamed Bush so please don't imply that I did nor did I praise Obama, so again, please don't imply that I did/do. You are blaming democrats and bashing the left for the same things the right is just as guilty of. Those without sin can cast the first stone. Get off your republican high horse and start working with the left. You both are right about somethings and both are so wrong about other things but when you fight you often miss a common ground which is better suited for the people of this country. You are a hypocrite and I am truely sorry that you cannot see it. Besides your arguements aren't answering any of my statements, you seem to start your sentences off as if you were going to respond to my comments but out of no where you just kind of veer off track but continue dribbling on to make it seem as if you are proving a point. No one is fooled.

"I will say again, was a peaceful demonstration by law abiding citizens who love their country and do not want to see it destroyed by a bunch of sniveling children who can't take care of themselves. Why bring down a whole country in order to give money to people who refuse to work?"

And the divisiveness continues. Real hard working 'mericans against lazy welfare cheats.

I used military/socialized medicine for the majority of my adult life. I received adequate care (comparable to my current HMO) and would rather see a debate focused on the cost/benefits of moving to a single payer system. I even had to use the NHS system in England when I was deployed to a remote location. I found that service to be comparable to what I get with my HMO.

Why not allow the uninsured to sign up for Tricare Prime? Even if some lazy "not real Americans" abuse the system, would it be cheaper for us in the long run?

I say we lost our country when the Supreme Court made up its power for "judicial review." Check the constitution. It doesn't exist. The court just decided that the judicial branch didn't have enough power over the other two, and so it made up it's own power. Like a little kid acting like a super hero. But what do I know? Every hippie had a "not my president" bumper sticker for Bush, but I have yet to see a "let's see the long form" bumper sticker.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but I wasn't convinced of the moon landings until the recent satellite photos. Now I'm pretty sure it happened. However, I'm not convinced that Obama is an American citizen. I know it may seem crazy, but I believe that with the power of the entire liberal American media behind him, it would be easy to pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

Seems like there is an anti-socialist feeling here. So if a public health care option is socialist, what exactly are the following?

a) Public Schools
b) Police and Fire
c) State Universities
d) The Justice System
e) Infrastructure Maintenance
f) The Military
g) State and National parks
h) Our ENTIRE political system

add to this list as you please.........

@Original-Jason


Yeah 3/4ths of his contributions came from Insurance. Its about as true as a "death panel" and "rationing" of health care.

When Palin, Limbaugh and Beck make things up, CONservatives eat it up, hook line and sinker. Whats wrong with making up lies and mis-truths??
Its my opinion and I want my country back!!!!

ZombieKoala - I say I lost MY country when men stopped wearing hats on a regular basis.

Not sure if cynic is the right word.

@Mad Dog

Dont forget the entire Tax Code.

The more you make, the more you pay.


If were living in a socialist country, I actually LIKE socialism. Imagine that.

BeerSteeler - You can't stop the crazy with valid debate. You have to outcrazy them. e.g. ACORN, ZOMBIES, DEATH PANELS, REAL AMERICAN in every other sentence. All caps help to make your point more crazy and therefore you will win all debates.

@Zombie Koala

Are you convinced John McCain is an American?

He was born in Panama.

john McCain III was born on August 29, 1936 at the Coco Solo Air Base on the Atlantic side of the Panama Canal Zone

Oh by the way, for all you Constitutionalists out there, what exactly did our founding fathers mean when they put the phrase " promote the general Welfare " in the preamble of the Constitution?

I just had a novel thought!!!

Why dont we do away with taxes COMPLETELY!!! Why should ANY of my money go to that stinking Govt!!

I dont want to help pave roads in other states. I dont want to help educate children in other states with my money...even if it DOES do good for the entire country.

These TEA BAGGING rallies are actually rallies for Anarchists...and if you support them, you are a Anarchist.

Big Govt bad...no govt good! Anarchy YAY!

Fat Painter said

"Yes, I do give to my church, which BTW is none of your business. My money that is given to my church not only helps run the church, it also is used to help out the needy who come for assistance. You know...the place you perhaps run to when you need some help on your utility bills or some food to tie you over till the next government check comes in. The same place you call around Thanksgiving and Christmas while looking for someone else to feed your family and give your children a Christmas because you know how to 'work the system'."


These words would seem to indicate the view of a person who is having problems accepting and following the principles of the very faith professed.

From the New Testament:

Luke 18:22 (King James Version)

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me."

or

Romans 14:10-12 (King James Version)

10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at naught thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

11 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

12 "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

Faith is based on your love for Jesus. It is based on your acceptance of his principles and teachings. If you love the Lord then you will give gladly and follow him.
Of course, if your only reason to attend services is out of a fear of eternal punishment then ......

@Koala

Do you have a hard time swallowing John McCain is an American??

John McCain III was born on August 29, 1936 at the Coco Solo Air Base on the Atlantic side of the Panama Canal Zone

maddawg,

If you polled 100 "conservatives" and asked them for their ideal scope of government, I think the list would look like what you referenced. I don't think anyone would have disagreed with any of that from the start. There's a big difference between infrastructure, a legal system (the foundation of capitalism) and national security vs. a publicly-operated and funded health care plan. You're not talking apples and oranges, you're talking apples and roosters.

You know then again, I guess if the Constitution was SO PERFECT, it wouldn't have been amended 27 Times!

CHL Holder, quit putting words in my mouth. I was obviously there because I oppose big government. I was dissapointed because it was a republican rally and there was a lot of speaking on behalf of and pushing the republican ideals. I believe in capitalism and in the republic in which we live. I never said it wasn't a peaceful demonstration, shouting and ignorance still falls under tha catagory of peaceful demonstration. You, sir, are a hypocrite. You bash the left for the same thing the right does. If you had read any of my postings you would realize that I don't adhere to any political party line. I am neither right or left. Please take your brain dead posting elsewhere because it does nothing but bring down the level of competence in the comments for this article which is already insanely low. Please re-think your ideals and weigh them out realistically. And quit the mud slinging and please, please stop putting words in my mouth.

As a real, law-abiding 'merican, I demand to see all of your long form birth certificates. I believe all of you are communist zombies.

@Jason..

Those same conservatives you speak of keep spouting off about how they are sick of THEIR tax dollars going to people who dont work and bailing others out. About how they dont want THEIR tax dollars going to someone elses health care.

I ask, why stop at Healthcare??

Why do they not complain about fixing bridges and roads in another state that they will never drive on, receive any goods from, or basically know ever existed?

It IS Apples to Apples, you just cant tell because of the wool over your eyes.

Please, please answer this for me, Jason.

Though I do like the typical CONservative response...

"Yes the Govt runs all those programs well....but...but....its just not the same as Health Care!!!"

I also like the "Medicare is almost bankrupt!" excuse...well...uhh...its a social programs that designed to SPEND MONEY, of course its going to operate at a loss. If it didnt, I would nominate it in place of our tax system as a revenue generation tool

Why is it more important for the health reform to be pushed through quickly than for it to be right? Are they afraid Ted Kennedy will be dead and they can’t stop a filibuster?

BeerSteeler,

When you're done posting incorrect mathematical calculations, bust out a dictionary and look up the word "infrastructure." After that, I believe you will withdraw your question.

BeerSteeler,

You are just silly. Is this your definition of a negligible loss?

http://www.ohio.com/news/top_stories/53383547.html

According to our gov't..health care cost from 1960 to 2007 went from 5.2% of GDP in 1960 to 16.2% GDP in 2007. In dollars this is $27.5 billion to $2241.2 billion. So in 2007 per person averaged out we spent $7,421 per person on health care..in 1960 we only spent only $148 per person. i got this from this site http://tinyurl.com/netlsw estimate by 2019 we will spend 4.9 trillion dollars on health care if our health care system continues on its current path.

Even if you don't agree with the numbers or think they are exaggerated about the projected growth of healthcare costs / expenditures in this country, you cannot ignore the fact that we are spending more and more on health care and getting less and less...The number one factor in how long you live is your lifestyle. People who live a healthy active life, people who don't drink excessively, people who exercise (and this could just be taking a walk after dinner), people who have good eating habits..Live longer. It has very little to do with healthcare.

The reason you see such healthcare growth is threefold..
1.We as a society aren't healthy
2.We as a society bought the myth that a pill or operation is the cure to what ails us.
3.We allow corporations to decide what is best for our healthcare when corporations only care about their bottom line, no matter how caring the people in the corporation are, they cannot escape the fact that a corporation exists to make profits.

The above..rising cost of health care is why change is needed because if it doesn't change..No one will have any health care because no one will be able to afford it. It will bankrupt our country. So for you patriots out there..This is a call to you to realize the facts and the truths and act on it, as our President, our Congress even our health care industry is trying to do.

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of others people money."

in⋅fra⋅struc⋅ture
  /ˈɪnfrəˌstrʌktʃər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-fruh-struhk-cher] Show IPA
Use infrastructure in a Sentence
–noun
1. the basic, underlying framework or features of a system or organization.
2. the fundamental facilities and systems serving a country, city, or area, as transportation and communication systems, power plants, and schools.
3. the military installations of a country

@Jason..

My question to you still remains.

Why is the conservative arguement against Healthcare reform always "I dont want my tax dollars going to help those without healthcare".....yet they have no objections to tax dollars going to INFRASTRUCTURE in other states and regions that they will never see, use or benefit from????

Put the Kool-Aid pitcher down and answer me instead of trying to divert attention away with comments about dictionaries.

@Jason..

The "Unfunded Liabilities" ruse you so claim as FACT, is actually another Conservative scare tactic.

Imagine if in 1950, someone had calculated the costs of educating the baby boomers in public institutions through their college years. What an immense, unmanageable burden! And nothing-not a penny-had been set aside by 1950 to cover the costs of public universities in the 1960s and 1970s! Using the logic of unfunded liabilities that has fueled alarmist media stories, public universities should have been closed; education should have been left to the private sector.

Yet nobody ever claimed in the 1950s and 1960s that the education of the Baby Boomers was an excessive burden our society, or that our public institutions could not afford to accept the challenge. When we needed more schools, we built them. Why should the Boomers' retirement be unmanageable? We need to strengthen social insurance for old people, and we will be able to afford it.

BeerSteeler,

Because infrastructure(1) also provides an economic benefit. A specific citizen might not use a stretch of highway in Boise, but the trailer used to ship the bars of soap he buys off of the shelf at the store does. You're incorrect in portraying anyone as saying that they benefit.

This is really not a complicated argument. But to indulge you, why then shouldn't our distribution of food, shelter and basic utilities be a nationalized commodity void of any profit mechanisms? Does it not also promote the general welfare?

(1) the underlying foundation or basic framework (as of a system or organization)

the permanent installations required for military purposes

the system of public works of a country, state, or region; also : the resources (as personnel, buildings, or equipment) required for an activity

"saying that they DON'T benefit."

@Jason..

Im waiting for an answer, still.

Fox News must be on a commercial break, huh.

Thats fine, I'll wait.

As I said on another story today, simple people seek simple answers. Sure, I oppose you, so I watch Fox News. If that helps you rationalize an argument better, OK.

@BeerSteeler:

Psssst - It's selfishness and greed, you know, things antithetical to their religiosity.

But - don't dare accuse them of hypocrisy. It's your fault if you haven't got yours yet ....

BeerSteeler,

Unfunded liabilities is a conservative rouse, eh? Somebody should tell our current President then, because he seems to be aware of the magnitude. Must be the clarity one gets from not living with their head in the sand.


http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77531&id=9001957

Beer_Steeler, with such good points you couldn't have possibly have grown up in Pittsburgh!
Anyway, the perceived worth of tax spending is certainly in the eye of the beholder. As our buddy Jason said, the expense of infrastructure seems like a benefit to him because it brings him goods and at a reduced rate. Jason has no perceived benefit from the education or welfare of others, so thus, any expenditure of his dollars towards that end is a waste. Your point, on the other hand, speaks to the wording of our Constitution to "promote the general Welfare", regardless of whether or not it promotes "my" general welfare.

If I am an truck driver and I have health insurance but during my route I stop at a public rest area. There is a bus of kids from a public school going on a field trip to visit the nations capital. One of the kids has no health care as there parents are part of the millions of working poor in this country who pay their taxes but still cannot get ahead. This kid for awhile has had a cough but because they do not have health care it goes undiagnosed / uncared for and he infects me with pneumonia. I return home to pick up my truckload of soap that I am delivering to your local grocery store. That truck will now be delayed because I am sick and being taken care of because I do have health care, but because I was on our public roads in contact with children going to public schools who do not have public or private health insurance. The grocery store does not have the soap to sell and you don't have soap to shower because you work hard and don't have time to go to another grocery store for a basic good as soap. Then next day you go to work and get fired for not taking care of your personal hygiene. Now you are on welfare taking more public funds. So how is health care not a public concern? My story may sound a bit far fetched (i don't think it is), but I think reasonable people can understand the points I am making.

@nottheusual1 said << But - don't dare accuse them of hypocrisy.>> You are right,,It is your fault if you haven't got yours yet ... Go out, get an education, get a job. If you are not satisfied with that, work harder, longer, attain what you want by initiative and hard work.. instead of holding your palm up to the government and say "gimme"

I have half a mind to get myself laid-off, I mean the government will give me 18 months of benefits while sitting on my kiester playing on this computer. WHAT a GREAT country... yes? and as long as the Democrats are in complete power, I have no doubt that they will continue to extend those benefits on and on and on.. I mean after all, we wouldn't want anyone to be left behind, even if I was too lazy to go to work.

@Jason..

Your answer is POOR. For every 1 road I get soap (or anything else for that matter) from, there is 500,000 roads that I get no economic value from.

But hey, why are MY tax dollars paying for roads in Idaho. Let the people in IDAHO pay for their roads. If they dont want to, maybe the people in Utah will pay for their own road to get me my soap. FREE MARKET BABY!!

Jason, if you want to share Idahos INFRUSTRUCTURE costs with them to better benefit the entirety of the country, would that make you a ..drumroll.. SOCIALIST!!!! ??

BeerSteeler,

It doesn't matter if you believe it. All that matters is that your dream of the health system is dead per the rational wing of the Democratic Party. You're getting nothing like you want, so get learn to deal with it. There are plenty of shoulders to cry on here, so I'll leave you with them. I really can't converse with someone who thinks a road, a judicial system, a military and universal health care are the same thing. Not worth the time.

I am not saying who should pay for healthcare mind you, i am just pointing out that healthcare is in fact an indisputable public concern.

@Maddog

Ashamed to say I grew up in Akron.

@Jason

Yet looking beyond the immediate economic perils we face, a $35 trillion unfunded liability for Medicare--not a penny set against it



Uh yeah dude, did you read the NEXT paragraph??????

BeerSteeler,

Like I said, look up the word infrastructure. You did that, but I forgot to tell you to comprehend it. Therefore, I'll help you out.

"the system of public works of a country, state, or region; also : the resources (as personnel, buildings, or equipment) required for an activity"

Hint: Also look up "system."

BeerSteeler,

I might get angry and take offense to your insults if they made any sense. You have a preconceived notion of what you want the argument to be, but when it strays from that, you can't pivot and react to actual concepts. I'm sure that skill translates well to the working world.

@Berrstinker "I just had a novel thought!!!

Why dont we do away with taxes COMPLETELY!!! Why should ANY of my money go to that stinking Govt!!"



I have a better idea: Tax our paychecks @ 100% and redistribute all the money to everyone. That way no one's feelings are hurt and everyone gets the same amount.

somewhere in these comments someone asked if there were any pictures of black Americans at this event. Actually there are but I doubt the gentlemen in my pictures want to be offered up as sacrificial symbols. How they wound up in the background of my pictures is their business and the risk of them being counted, identified, judged and persecuted without representation based simply on their skin tone just to prove someone a fool isn't worth it.

@Jason..

I never said a road, judicial system and the rest of what you said is the same thing.

I only asked WHY conservatives are ok paying for roads in other states with their tax dollars in order to get a bar of soap .23 cheaper, but not fund a Govt Healthcare plan that will help MILLIONS of people who cannot do it on their own due to corporate greed and the for-profit model they now follow.

The fact that you have given up tells me either A. you dont know B. you know and realize its an answer that undercuts 75% of the against healthcare arguement, or C. Fox News hasnt given you the answer yet.

I bet on C.

?? I wasn't old enough to be around for it..but health care has been considered a public concern for decades. Ever hear of the March of Dimes..talking about when FDR supported it and helped create it... You don't think curing polio was int he public interest? Do you not want to fund the CDC? You don't think our government should be involved in curing H1N1? You think the free market is better at this? You think it is better to have private corporations work independent of each other to find the cure when if they worked in tandem and shared their research undoubtedly cures would be found sooner. You can go on about that it takes away the individuals initiative to create..to work harder, but the fact is that when you work for these companies and you have to work for these companies if you want money to do your research, the company owns your work and you get no personal profit from your work. the incentive you have is to keep your job, to make more money, but not as much as your company will profit from your discovery, and most importantly knowing you helped.

@fpmayor

I know you are, but what am I?

And to say that it takes away from the corporate incentive to find new cures...I agree it does...Which is why health care probably is best served as a public concern, not a private matter.

Boy, after reading all these comments it is so easy to see who are the brainwashed.

Everything is blamed on Racist..there is only one color that I have ever known to be racist in the North. It isn't White.

I cannot not believe lie detector said obama will be the worst president, even worst then carter. Bush set a new standard for worst. it is not even possible to get as bad as bush any more. it is now against the law to suck as much as bush. carter looked like jesus compared to bush!

@Jason..

Who insulted you? I didnt. I merely stated my opinion that your answer was poor and you seem to have socialist tendencies when it comes to funding public works.

Its my opinion, just like those at the Tea Bagging have their opinions.

Grendell also urged the crowd to support strong states' rights and to protect their freedoms.

''I want my country back,'' he said.

The States' Rights Democratic Party (commonly known as the Dixiecrats) was a segregationist, socially conservative political party in the United States.The civil rights issue revealed the real philosophical differences between northern and southern Democrats as never before. The move of Southern states from solidly Democrat to solidly Republican began to take place. In that environment, the Dixiecrats and the “Southern Strategy” was born.
DOES ANY OF THIS SOUND FAMILIAR?

@Kackie3:

You should really get out more. You lead a wicked sheltered life ...

@FarWestSide:

Ah - the smell of phony bootstrap leather. Is it Pleather or just Naugahyde?

Heard it before - abjectly lacks perspective and empathy. So stereotypical of the crusty old f@rts that hang around here ...

Bright Star.I have proven your point over and over again. lie detector and their views are Dixiecrats segregationist all over again.

wonder if anyone took a tea bag to the chin?

@StephenD

Although I understand what you are saying, and it DOES make sense, I think that "I want my country back" has about as much political clout as a 5 year old repeating "Thats my toy" when they are forced to share. (and I dont mean money)

Thats whats going on now, all these Conservatives are being forced to share what they gained by means of illegal wars, fear mongering and corporate bailouts.

Turns out they lost more than they ever gained in the first place.

I hear all this political junk right left black white but has anyone of you come up with an idea to health care any time federal goverment gets involved they mess up[ cash for clounkers] for one any health care should be done local or state with everyone paying his or her share

nottheusual1 i agree completely...

@Kackie3:

maybe you haven't seen white people being racist because you can only identify racism against your own white race. when people are racist against other races, you don't view it as so as you just think, yup..thats true..and maybe chuckle..

ronald..i do believe that is where the legislation is heading towards...it is even commented that the white house has shown a willingness to move in that direction...

Dude,

The next paragraph, after the one where he disputed your take, goes into his THOUGHTS on a solution. Many critics say that the legislation proposed doesn't address health cost inflation. If you don't do that, your only other choices are (1) raise taxes (2) reduce benefits and/or beneficiaries.

Everything I Learned About the Constitution, I Learned on Sesame Street.

Which of these thing is not like the other:

a) Public Schools
b) Police and Fire
c) State Universities
d) The Justice System
e) Infrastructure Maintenance
f) The Military
g) State and National parks
h) Our ENTIRE political system
i) Nationalized health care

BeerSteeler,

Just curious, how old are you?

Bright Star, wtf are you talking about?

I get out and lived in the heart of Akron for 30 years. Knew many and knew where it came from. Even my dear friends of color.

And there is nothing wicked about my life..I get along with everyone. Even the Antis.

Why is the conservative arguement against Healthcare reform always "I dont want my tax dollars going to help those without healthcare".....yet they have no objections to tax dollars going to INFRASTRUCTURE in other states and regions that they will never see, use or benefit from????<
Actually your comment is wrong. Conservatives do not simply want to keep those without healthcare that way. You aren't paying attention.

The big problem with Health care reform by the Obama Administration is what they propose is to increase those with insurance while cutting costs. That, my liberal friend, can't be done.

And while Sarah Palin used fighting words to describe it, Death Panels are what we will get (Note. when we had rationing by healthcare institutions in the 1960s with kidney dialysis, the committees that determined who got on dialysis and who would not (die) were called Life Committee).

Now Obama says there won't be rationing, but older Americans know he's lying. It is the only way you can rein in costs. How do you think Canada only uses 10% of their GNP for healthcare while we use 17%. It isn't by doing more procedures.

Your straw man argument about roads is nonsense. You want to make it that roads only give you a little money off on your soap when roads are the life blood of commerce. This commerce has made America rich.

Instead of healthcare for all, why don't we devote the money to curing cancer? Certainly that would benefit society more than insuring the people who aren't insured?

BS (an appropriate abbreviation) I think you've had too much beer.

Jason, have you ever actually read the Constitution? Please do before you continue to spew nonsense.
What exactly is Socialism?
Really, it is not so easily defined, much to the dismay, I am sure, by those that choose to accuse others of being "Socialist"
Here's a site to look over:
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Socialism
Lots of variation here, and I'll bet that many conservatives would find a niche somewhere for many of their beliefs.

i saw a picture of a man with tea bags hanging from his hat. I saw anther picture of a man with two tea bags hanging on his chin.

Whoa, goodspkr, lay off the moonshine.

2 things strike me as funny...first the second post by nmaxxs..rather than post thoughtful reasons we should consider the Statist position, this person has to drag in the last administration into the conversation...yaawwwwnnn, he is also under the illusion that we on the conservative side all supported all of George Bush's policy...well we didn't. Secondly..It has struck me that while I have seen real concerned Americans gathering to protest the agenda of the left in Washington, I don't see any gathering of people on the left, Who want THEIR voices heard in SUPPORT of those policies. Wonder why that is?
This administration took bad ideas from the last one and multiplied them 100 fold. This administration is a nightmare.
Put Very simply
Washington DC needs an enema.

@goodspkr said:"Now Obama says there won't be rationing, but older Americans know he's lying."

Ah - more of the Omniscient Boomer Oracles today.

So, what's the Regressive movement been right about in the past, oh, 50 years?

They sure were wrong in their sales pitch from Big Dutch Reagan in their tirade against Medicare.

And we should have used the money wasted in Iraq enriching Halliburon stock holders to cure cancer.

Gosh, we coulda insured everyone, to boot.

Take your time ...

maddawg,

How does reading the Constitution change me disputing that it doesn't grant anything in regards to healthcare? Is that that general line your basis for anything that you arbitrarily deem to "promote the general welfare?" Sounds like an limitless "right" to me.

You don't agree, so it's nonsense. OK, sure. Only one of us will be on the losing side of this issue in about three months. Sucks for you.

"The problem with Socialists is that sooner or later they run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher

Iamcob:

You say you are not Republican or Democrat and yet everything you say is Democrat! Who is the hypocrite? If you're not a Democrat then pigs fly. You can call yourself whatever you want but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is a duck! Admit it! Don't be ashamed of what you are!

Do you believe the government should take care of you? yes! Then you're a Democrat. Do you want big Government? Yes! Then you're a Democrat! Don't be ashamed! Admit who you are and quite the hateful attacks on those who disagree with you! We will not be silenced! The silent majority has awoken and we will not be stopped. You dismiss us only to your own peril.
2010 is just around the corner and we will be back in power before you know it. This country is not a Socialist country and we will not allow Socialists to take it over.
You're a Socialist! That's great! Be a Socialist and admit it rather than pretend to be an "independent thinker". I never have understood why libs want to be called anything but what they really are. Heck, I'm proud to be a Conservative and I tell everyone I know! You'll never see me pretend to be anything other than a Conservative and proud of it!

Why are you ashamed of who you are?

It strikes me more that liberals are still drinking the cool aid that Bush's economic policies had anything to do with the meltdown of the sub-prime mortgage! We need to get back to solid economic principles now. Bush wasn't perfect, his bail out was a bad idea and is a failure. Now Obama has only followed the failed policies of Bush with the stimulus program (that is likely holding back recovery!).

Okay, I checked it out for an hour. I'll say it again: "When all is said and done, more will be said than done."

Not my form of civil entertainment.

Global cooling...read this article..then tlel me how Bush did not play an important roll in the sub prime mortgage meltdown...

http://tinyurl.com/2nnkda

Excellent point, nottheusual1 about finding a cure for cancer. Spread some butter on you today, cause you are on a roll!

CHL Holder:

Amen to everything you said! Even here in the world's largest Amish community, we are conservative and not intimidated to say it!

Bright Star, sure it is. Dumb and Dummer had approval rating in the single digits when they were in the Senate. Bush never came close to that rating.

Sorry if some facts upset you.

Dear ConServatives...er Regressives: Memo to all you white freaks of nature. You LOST in Nov. No amount of childish screaming and kicking will change that. You WILL CONTINUE to LOSE ELECTIONS.....as the country is moving FORWARD. Either lend a hand....OR GET THE HE@#@@ out of the way. The demographics ARE NOT going to reverse any time soon. Wa...wa....wa...wa!!!!!

If Senator Tim Grendell was born after 1936; he lived under FDR Social Security program; founded on socialist/communist principles and values.
It’s; we, the government of the people, by the people, for the people, RESPONSIBILITY; to nominate and elect President, Governor, Senators, Representatives, County Commissioners, Mayors, Township Trustees, City Councils, and School Boards; with copyright; founded on demands of Natural Law: what Mother Nature, God, or Whatever Power decreed to be the reality of the real world, God, democracy, capitalism, the US Constitution, and free, fair, and affordable commerce.
Demanding every corporation, farmer, business, outsourcer sweatshop, and nonprofit, tax-exempt, organization and Church; markets the cost; in the wholesale and retail price of his or her product and service; Of every workers, consumers, and taxpayers living (including pension and health care); enabling them to love, nurse, nurture, discipline, protect, and provide for every child (job) they conceive; and fund schools, infrastructure, national security, government services, and etc.; with money derived from wages or independent business profit!

CHL Holder: what does this mean.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquillity,provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and
our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

truth sought, another intelligent post my man! They lost, so get the H out of the way white people! you rule

Folks, I want MY country back too. I want my country back from the C-Street lobbyists who have controlled America since the Supreme Court's decision in the 1870s that corporations must have the same rights as citizens. I want my country back from the economically powerful who have the rights denied working Americans to make decisions like how much health care I and my family will be allowed, and whether or not we will have to go to the poor house if someone in our family suffers a serious illness.

I want my country back! And THAT is the reason why, for the first time in my life, I made the decision in 2008 to vote for a major party candidate for president of the United States. Now the question is, do Barack Obama and the Democrat-controlled US Congress have the will to stand up to the authoritarians and power-mad capitalist establishment and take back what rightfully belongs to each US citizen: an equal share of our democratic nation. Can you do it, Mr President? Because, if not, we the people are prepared to use what power and talent we have to wage a peaceful war of democracy against those who are fighting with all their power to prevent us from taking back our nation from the elite, mostly white, rich capitalist establishment. Now THAT is what I call a tea-party. You're free to join in if you wish, but realize our party was held last November, and we were told we won, so don't go trying to place your angst against democracy over the American public's decision to throw liberal capitalist dogma into the ocean. That again isn't "socialism", it's just another does of old fashioned common sense.

CHL Holder:
Reagan for the AMA from back in 1963 warning of the dangers of socialism if Medicare passed.Reagan's 1961 message was recorded as part of the American Medical Association's "Operation Coffee Cup," the goal of which "was to defeat legislation called King-Anderson, a congressional health care bill designed to assist older Americans that, Ultimately came into being as Medicare." In the recording, Reagan warned that if the bill were passed, doctors would be told by the government where to live and where to practice, and that "you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in America when men were free."
Why the same old argument.
Your party ran ohio for 14years.Corruption one after the other.US CONGRESS FROM 1996-2006.Gramm leach bliley act of 1999 ALL REPUBLICANS AND SIGNED BY CLINTON.The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999,Enacted November 12, 1999) is an act of the 106th United States Congress (1999-2001) which repealed part of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, opening up the market among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies. The Glass-Steagall Act prohibited any one institution from acting as any combination of an investment bank, a commercial bank, and/or an insurance company.
2010 is just around the corner and we will be back in power before you know it.Keep dreaming.

Not partisan? Grendell, Robart and Patrick are all of the Inner Party. The drooling Proles are under their control. Completely partisan, maybe just not the two parties that we typically define.

tginakron:

If you read my post, you would understand that my point was there is all of a sudden a great concern with the direction of the country after 8 years of the most incompetant presidency in our history. The nightmare is what was left for Obama to fix.

We on the left of center don't need to rally and voice our support for the new president. We won, remember?

@nottheusual1 Talk about typical, instead of coming back with facts you come back with name calling and belittling comments..

Dear Far Westside Kook: Quack...quack..quack......

I believe that Tea Party folks, if they had their way, would do more to suppress individual freedom than those at whom they level their attacks. I also got a chuckle out of Senator Grendell's criticism of government. It is almost like he does not realize that as senator, he is part of the government.

@truth sought I rest my case

I enjoy reading Truth Sought's rational, well thought-out posts. It is almost enough to draw me to his team. I like the idea of being able to answer every hard question by shouting "KOOK" and then calling people racist from my lily white community.

Truth Sought:
"Dear ConServatives...er Regressives: Memo to all you white freaks of nature. You LOST in Nov. No amount of childish screaming and kicking will change that. You WILL CONTINUE to LOSE ELECTIONS.....as the country is moving FORWARD. Either lend a hand....OR GET THE HE@#@@ out of the way. The demographics ARE NOT going to reverse any time soon. Wa...wa....wa...wa!!!!!"
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As I said in an earlier post, the liberals are very racist! Why did you bring up race? Nothing I said had anything to do with race? When the libs lose an argument, like they currently are, they always throw race into the mix to stir things up. I feel bad for you not only because you're trying to stir racial animosity, but also because your post shows the level of your intelligence.
Perhaps you should put your money where your screen name is and go and seek some truth! You will not find it by spewing venom!

Rather than engage anyone, I decided to post some statistics that I believe reflect what should be the true debate here.

According to the Census Bureau, which I don't believe is partisan, 46 million people living in this country are uninsured. I say "living in this country" because a good portion of them (10 million) are not US citizens. If we can all agree that in order to receive insurance (not care, by the way, because we all get care no matter what), the individuals should make an attempt to become a citizen? Yes? If so, then this number comes into play.

Another 18.4 million uninsured are under the age of 34. Who are the majority of these people? Well..a lot of these individuals are people who CHOOSE not to carry insurance. In addition, a lot of them are eligible for Medicaid, yet, because Medicaid will accept you even if you have a pre-existing condition, they CHOOSE not to enroll in it until they need it.

Statistics also state that another 14 million of those uninsured have incomes exceeding 50k per year, with more than half of those earning at least 75k per year. In my opinion, that is enough income to purchase a plan for themselves or their family. Would anyone disagree?

When you factor in all of the statistics (http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/medicarehealthinsurance/a/insurancestats), you start to see a bigger picture and the number of truly "uninsured" becomes more evident. Do we need to help these 10 million or so who are "caught in the middle"? Absolutely! Do we need to destroy an entire system to do it? No! Obamacare does not bring down cost (if that is your reason for supporting it) unless the govt rations care to those who need it most. It is not some "trick" or "scare tactic" to say that, it is basic common sense economics. If anything, the CBO states that it raises cost! These are my reasons for not supporting Obamacare, none of which are racist or motivated by greed.

StephenD6:
You prove my point! Thank you! Reagan was correct! Look at the state of all the programs that you mention and you will find that they are bankrupting the country!

Medicare has $37 Trillion in unfunded liabilities and is bankrupt. Social Security is bankrupt. At the current time entitlements are sucking 60% of the budget and is bankrupting the country. Even Obama said the Post Office is a failure!

I guess I'm not sure what your point is? The $3 Billion for clunkers has been a failure and only 2% of the money has been given to the car dealers! Need I go on?

There are a few things that the Federal Government is supposed to handle and is good at and one example is the Military and National Defense. The Federal Government is not supposed to be involved in our daily lives and with every encroachment into the social fabric of our lives we lose that much freedom. If the government can't handle $3billion for clunckers, how in the world will it handle 1/6th of the American economy with Health Care?

God help us if the Socialists get their way!

Think:
I believe that Tea Party folks, if they had their way, would do more to suppress individual freedom than those at whom they level their attacks.
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What makes you "think" that? Either you don't know what was said and you're spewing your liberal talking points or you need to use your brain a little more to do some "think"ing. Really! It doesn't hurt your brain to actually use it!

RightofCenter:
Excellent post!

Clueless,

"No amount of childish screaming and kicking will change that. You WILL CONTINUE to LOSE ELECTIONS.....as the country is moving FORWARD"

hehe

How many of Truth Sought's employees are going to bed tonight wondering what they'd do if they had to choose between getting life-saving medical treatment or going bankrupt? It's a shame when greed trumps the value of human life.

@Jason

a) Public Schools
-Tax payer dollars from the Govt help ensure that the uneducated get the education they need
b) Police and Fire
-Tax payer dollars from the Govt help ensure that areas with little to no local law enforcement or large fire Depts get the coverage they need (sherrifs, highway patrol, volunteer fire dept)
c) State Universities
-Tax payer dollars from the Govt go to help financially strapped students and families get the education they need
d) The Justice System
-Provides public defenders for those who are unable to hire a lawyer or do not know enough to represent themselves. Obviously, there is a lot more to this than just public defenders.
e) Infrastructure Maintenance
-By this I assume you mean roads, bridges, railways and so forth. Again, uses tax payer dollars to ensure roads are safe and well maintained in municipalities where the dollars are just not there to do so
f) The Military
-Well all know what they do
g) State and National parks
-Uses tax payer dollars to preserve and protect acreage that local municipalities cannot, or will not do for the general welfare
h) Our ENTIRE political system
-I have no clue what you included this for
i) Nationalized health care
-Proposals are to help individuals and businesses an affordable option for healthcare insurance to receive care they need and deserve.