Events Calendar
In This Section
Most Read Stories
Man robbed at Tallmadge Avenue eatery
Another winter punch heading toward Ohio
Complaints against officer keep coming
Four teens restrain man, take items from his Akron home
Police: Ohio girl dies after fall into snow bank
Region makes way for latest batch of snow; cancellations rise
Cuyahoga Falls residents come home to find burning couch on balcony
Blogs:
First Bell - On Education:
No City of Akron basketball tonight
Pets:
Pet telethon re-airs
The Heldenfiles:
Chipmunks "Squeakquel" on DVD/BD March 30
Akron Zips:
Late surge gives Zips ugly road win
Tribe Matters:
Blogmail response on Hafner
Cleveland Browns:
Stallworth's contract terminated
Balanced Ledger:
QB in Browns future: another mock draft
Kent State Sports:
KSU Notes – February 9
Cleveland Cavaliers:
NBA Power Rankings from Around the Internet
Buckeye Blogging:
Buckeyes grab 18 players on signing day
Varsity Letters:
Garfield at Buchtel basketball
All Da King's Men:
Palin At The Tea Party Convention
Blog of Mass Destruction:
Republican Pre-Conditions
Akron Law Café:
Law, Love and Chocolate
Car Chase:
Collector Car Hobby Loses One of the Best—Jim Roll
Let's Talk Real Estate:
Decisions Decisions: Credit Cards or Your Mortgage?
Ohio Travels with Betty:
Loucile is looking for a Lake Erie getaway in June for three kids, ages 1, 3, and 5.
Sound Check:
Talk of the Town – Top entertainment picks for the weekend
HRLite House:
OFCCP Report
Akron Gamer:
Makers of 'Castle Crashers' unveil 'BattleBlock Theater'
See Jane Style:
Do IT this week: Layering
Last-place teams do these kinds of things
By Patrick McManamon
Beacon Journal sports columnist
Published on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009
It's reached the point with the Indians that they trade Mark DeRosa and it feels like they traded Mark McGwire.
The St. Louis Cardinals must have thought the same thing. They put DeRosa in the fourth spot in the lineup in his first game. Behind Albert Pujols.
Gotta protect Pujols, after all.
On one level, the DeRosa trade makes sense. He's 34, he's going to be a free agent and the Indians are going nowhere.
Except that the Indians say that the relief pitcher they got for DeRosa — Chris Perez — was acquired to help this year. So they evidently think that they can still go somewhere this year. The likeliest place seems to be Hale Farm, on the train.
It's not right or fair to make too much of the DeRosa deal. He's one player on a bad team. But . . . any dissatisfaction or willingness to part with him is confusing. And it's kind of emblematic of a situation with the Indians.
They seem to be on a treadmill, with guys coming and going between major-league or minor-league teams — yet the team is not going anywhere.
This is not optimal.
As for DeRosa, all he did was drive in 50 runs and play a bunch of positions. Maybe he wasn't a No. 2 hitter, which is where he started the year. If he's not, it's not his fault he was hitting there, is it?
DeRosa was one of the few Indians who bounced around from position to position and did not let it affect him. He started slow, but if the manager and front office were judged by slow starts, they would have been gone years ago.
I kind of liked DeRosa. He was a pro, did his job and did it fairly well. He could have gotten on base more (.342 OBP), had an OPS of .799. The Indians rued the time he missed in spring training for the World Baseball Classic because he couldn't become a leader, then they traded him.
In the offseason, the Indians talked to Casey Blake about re-signing with the Tribe. When he didn't, they traded for DeRosa and called him a better Blake.
They started DeRosa at third base, where he was not spectacular, but was OK. Then they moved him all over so they could put the swift-footed and baseball-picking Jhonny Peralta at third.
Part of this trade is prompted by the move of Peralta to third. Me, I think Peralta is less valuable there, but the Indians seem committed to seeing what he can do there. It was odd they moved him during the season, but that's what they did.
The thinking is that Peralta's lack of mobility and foot speed won't be as big a deal at third, where less ground has to be covered. But first-step quickness is necessary at the position, and that seems to be lacking from Peralta's arsenal.
I might have preferred two more years of DeRosa instead of four more of Peralta, but we'll see. But I also lack the Indians' studies and analysis. Bill James I'm not.
DeRosa is 34, and the Indians are 12 games behind with the worst record in the American League. He was on a career pace for homers and RBI, so the Indians might have traded him at his peak (14 of his 50 RBI came in three games). And they got a hard thrower for the bullpen, a large need, as well as the proverbial player to be named, a player who is supposed to be a major-league player.
''We feel we've acquired a pitcher whose upside is pitching in the back end of the bullpen,'' General Manager Mark Shapiro said. ''His fastball is 93 to 95 [mph] and has touched 98, he's got a swing-and-miss slider, but has some development to do.''
Perhaps this reliever is Mariano Rivera II. One of the things the Indians do best is cherry-pick other people's talents. Jose Veras, recently acquired from the New York Yankees, also throws in the 90s. This upgrades the bullpen speed; now it has to translate to upgraded performance.
But the Indians need to produce more loaves and fishes before they can contend this year.
This is not a fire sale, the Indians tell us, but it sure stinks like one. Offers have come in for Cliff Lee. Speculation has the Indians putting Rafael Betancourt, Carl Pavano and Jamey Carroll on the block.
That's all well and good, but it's badly reminiscent of last year's fire sale: The Indians acquire guys, state how good they are and then trade them away for more guys who are going to be good.
Last-place teams do these kinds of things. At some point, the fans will grow weary of it — if they haven't already.
Because it just seems that if it looks like a rebuild and walks like a rebuild and talks like a rebuild . . . well . . . doesn't that make it a duck?
Patrick McManamon can be reached at pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com. Read his blog at http://www.ohio.com/mcmanamon/. Follow Pat on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/patmcmanamon.
It's reached the point with the Indians that they trade Mark DeRosa and it feels like they traded Mark McGwire.
Get the full article here.
Comments
Click here to post your comments
Stow, OH
Posted 05:35 AM, 06/30/2009
Until the Dolans wake up and fire Shapiro for these trades that amount to us losing productive players and basically receiving junk in return nothing will change . He traded a Cy Young winner for what in return? Then he replaces him with Pavano, an ok pitcher that will probably end up with a .500 record ,Bird he never replaced,just hoping the other guys could fill the void,which didn't happen .
The Dolans promised to "open the bank" and spend the money when we got close to a contender.In 05 "the year of the choke" we ended up 2nd and were ranked 26th in spending . the Dolans answered that by being 25th in spending in 06.In 07 they were 23rd .Last year 16th and this year 14th ,which is basically average for our market size. Problem is the more they spend the worse Shapiro does with it.
Tallmadge, OH
Posted 05:50 AM, 06/30/2009
The Indians are owned by the Cheapskate Dolans. They refuse to spend money to win a WS championship. Unless the ownership changes, nothing good will come of the Indians. Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez are next up for the sale. Just waiting for those spin announcements.
akron, oh
Posted 07:03 AM, 06/30/2009
Wile,
The Indians got LaPorta for Sabathia. He will be good if they ever give him a chance. If they would have waited until the season was over the Yankees would still have paid the same for him and the Indians would be left with nothing.
It's funny that blog posters think they know it all. Why don't you have an office job with the Indians?
Reston, VA
Posted 07:56 AM, 06/30/2009
It's easy to mindlessly scream "cheap" everytime something goes wrong and blame the owner.
I am convinced the Dolans are not the problem. You'd always want an owner to pour unlimited cash into your team, but that's not realistic.
The Dolans do a lot of things right. They spend enough. Not as much as most fans would like, but they do spend enough.
They've set the players and the front office up to succeed by increasing payroll this year; by investing in the farm system; by signing their draft choices; and by providing all levels of the system with world-class training facilities. (Public funds certainly have contributed to the construction of these facilities, but the point is that the Indians under the Dolan era have been given everything that they need to succeed.)
There's plenty of blame to go around for the state of the team this year, but the root of the problem does not sit with the owner's pocketbook. It's up to the players and the front office to use the assets they have to maximize their value.
The Dolans are doing enough.
It's time to ask the players and the front office if they are doing the same.
Stow, OH
Posted 07:59 AM, 06/30/2009
@ygog ,If you read my post ,the point was they had time to make a decent trade for CC and still ended up with a prospect that is not productive TODAY,or who knows , after our coaching staff gets through with him ,he may never work out .
Now Shapiro traded a projected 100 RBI hitter for a guy that can't find the plate .You don't have to be a "know it all" to see this management stinks at what they do. Wait and see how much they give up in trades over the next month for 'PROSPECTS'that don't produce. You act like LaPorta is the next coming ,look at what they have done to Sizemore, he has regressed steadly over the years ,jurking every ball down the first base line and leading the team in strikouts,and we don't have a batting coach that can teach this smuck how to hit a ball to the center of the field ?
I think it's you who is blind to the facts ,just keep drinking the koolaid ,maybe it will all go away.
Akron, Oh
Posted 08:23 AM, 06/30/2009
What a joke - I said the sale would start by the 4th of July - guess I was wrong - by a week.
Akron, Oh
Posted 08:34 AM, 06/30/2009
Ok let's make more deals for the "future" and when they develop into marketable major league players trade them for more futures.
Mansfield, OH
Posted 08:44 AM, 06/30/2009
@Wile - You've got to give the LaPorta deal time to work out. Shapiro is the same guy who gave up Colon to get Sizemore, Brandon Phillips, and Cliff Lee. Wedge is the guy who decided Brandon Phillips was uncoachable and preferred keeping Perralta for his untapped potential.
I actually think Shapiro is better than he's given credit for. If he had the money to work with that Omar Minaya, Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman have, you'd be singing a different tune.
Stow, OH
Posted 09:21 AM, 06/30/2009
@ jcustunner, the Cliff Lee , Colon trade was in 2002 ! 7 years ago! Got anything a little more recent ? One good trade in 7 years ,and this is satisfactory to you ? Let's see Sizemore is batting .226 ,with 52 hits and 56 strikeouts in 55 games ,not exactly the next coming now is he ?
Why do you think we are in the mess we are in ? When you only get average money to spend you had better make every penny count. Lee is darn good ,problem is we will end up trading him for more "prosects" because we now can't afford to keep him.
.
Akron, OH
Posted 09:59 AM, 06/30/2009
Perez had a great outing last night!!
copley, oh
Posted 10:17 AM, 06/30/2009
Oh its a firesale alright.Next to go is Cliff Lee.Oh and bye the way Casey Blake is doing very well for the first place Dodgers.Every trade recently has back fired.I think Wedge and Shaprio need to be traded next.Shaprio still had not got any pitching help like he promised.Oh well anyway that the Indians and Aeros can switch places.The Aeros have always been consistant since 1999.And the Tribe no need to say anthing we all know the results.
Akron, Oh
Posted 10:27 AM, 06/30/2009
@Wiley
How about sending Michael Aubrey to the Orioles for Choo in return?
Stow, OH
Posted 10:54 AM, 06/30/2009
Come on guys ,one or two good trades out of 50 and you think this is good? I never seen so many people so willing to except and make so many excuses for ineptness. Don't forget Choo is 27 and has to serve 2 years in Korean military BEFORE his 30th birthday.
Posted 11:30 AM, 06/30/2009
we traded an excelent 3rd baseman and kept Jhonny no dive to play third,
this guy will not get his uniform dirty, has no range in any direction, hits when it does not count, i.e. his bat came alive just before the trade deadline and it died after this trade.
Spiro has to go.. the same as the bullpen coach.. we got rid of Luis Issac and the replacements have just done worse
Posted 01:50 PM, 06/30/2009
The Indians can identify all the top prospects other teams have, once they are in those organizations minor leagues.
My question is this, once they trade for them, how well do they develop? Grady seems to be regressing (hopefully it's only his elbow), Cliff Lee was up and down before putting it together, but just who do they develop?
The Indians entire scouting, drafting and development under Shapiro is a total joke. Who have we developed since CC and Martinez?
That's where the problem starts with the tribe. Remember, Jeremy Sowers was the number 6 overall pick in all of major league baseball in 2004. How's that working out for us?
He'll end up being a left handed bullpen arm. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but from the number 6 pick?
cuyahoga falls, oh
Posted 06:16 PM, 06/30/2009
the trade just plain stinks...
i think shapiro must be starting to drink heavily in the early a.m.
lakewood, oh
Posted 10:38 AM, 07/01/2009
Posted by Wile E Coyote
the point was they had time to make a decent trade for CC and still ended up with a prospect that is not productive TODAY
Come on guys ,one or two good trades out of 50 and you think this is good? I never seen so many people so willing to except and make so many excuses for ineptness. Don't forget Choo is 27 and has to serve 2 years in Korean military BEFORE his 30th birthday.
---------------------------------------------------
Wile E Coyote, I admire your passion and completely agree with you. Matt Laporta ( .302/376/521) and Michael Brantley (who is leading the international league in stolen bases at the age of 21) are not productive, if you meant that they weren’t productive at AAA, but if you meant that they weren’t productive in the majors, than I completely agree with you and think the Indians should have ignored a 100 years of baseball theory and had them skip levels in the minors so we could derail there careers. I also agree with you that besides the Colon trade, Einar Diaz for Travis Haftner, two months of Casey Blake for 6 controllable years of Carlos Santana (our top prospect), Eduardo Perez (retired) for Asdrubal Cabrera, Ben Broussard (also retired) for Choo, three scrap metal prospects for Mark DeRosa are not good trades and that 6 is not more than 2 regardless of what “so-called” mathematicians would say. I also agree that Choo can not become a U.S. citizen there by ending his military commitment and doesn’t have millions of dollars---I mean reasons to do so. So don’t let these people silence you with their “facts”. I for one am behind you 100%. Because what you lack in substance you make up for in enthusiasm.
Posted 12:37 PM, 07/01/2009
Pat, let's be honest here. This season is a disaster of unprecedented proportions. This team was supposed to contend. It was regarded as championship, or at least playoff, caliber. But I am less concerned about the national media getting it wrong. They are viewing it from a distance and through management's filters. But those running the team? How can they be so spectacularly, head scratchingly wrong? Injuries? Sure, but all teams have them, and what injuries there have been should have reduced this so called powerhouse to a .500 team, not the 1969 Tribe. And yes, sadly we've been here before, so we know the drill. The ramifications from this season will reverberate for years. The financial foundation and fan base will contract, the infrastructure from the minor leagues to the scouting network will begin to crumble from reduced funds and resource, the talent pool will diminish from a combination of poor drafts over the past 5 years and the bargain basement drafting to come (picks driven by signability not talent), a culture of losing will set in, talented players and executives will avoid the franchise, and the next generation of Indians fans will be left to wander baseball's wasteland as my generation did from the 1960's till the mid 90's. I never thought I would see it again in my lifetime.
Seville, Oh
Posted 02:25 PM, 07/01/2009
beck1234, you are right and Shapiro has done an ok job in "some" of his trades. My question is how has he done drafting players? I may be wrong but I think we only have a couple guys (1 or 2) that were his high draft picks on the current 25 man roster. Shapiro has done a horrible job drafting players.
lakewood, oh
Posted 04:55 PM, 07/01/2009
Chris5,
The Director of Amateur scouting is the one who drafts players, Bud Grant took over that position a couple of years ago and they have made some improvements but I'd like to see a lot more quite frankly. There are some factors that have decreased their production; Adam Miller's injuries, their budget not allowing them to go over the slot, they had only one pick in the top 10 and none in the top 5, and less than half of 1st rounders make it to the bigs. But they could have and should have drafted better. I think more pressure has to put on this organization to draft well. And although GMs don't generally draft those players themselves, those who do are ultimately their responsibility.
lakewood, oh
Posted 05:00 PM, 07/01/2009
Previously i wasn't trying to state that Shapiro hasn't made mistakes just that critizism should have a basis in reality, such as the draft, as opposed to trades.
