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Do IT this week: Layering
By Patrick McManamon
Beacon Journal sports columnist
POSTED: 07:46 p.m. EST, Jan 07, 2009
It would be nice to jump feet-first, head-over-heels into the pool to celebrate the hiring of Eric Mangini as coach of the Browns.
But it's not possible.
Not today at least.
Yes, there are good reasons owner Randy Lerner made this choice, starting with the fact Lerner spent more time with him than anyone and therefore should know Mangini's pluses and minuses better than those of us who have been observing from afar.
Mangini is experienced. He worked under Bill Belichick. He hopefully learned from any mistakes he made in his three years as coach of the New York Jets. He understands the game. He's very bright. He will bring discipline to players that need discipline.
Those positives are all there.
But the concerns about Mangini just don't go away. Nor did they go away the past few days as it became more and more apparent he was going to be hired.
To say that Mangini was a tough person to work for in New York might be an understatement. People did not think it was a fun place to work.
Some say Mangini tried too hard to be like Belichick. It never works when a coach tries to be someone other than himself.
Interesting, because many also say that Mangini also can be an engaging, good-natured guy — he just wasn't as a head coach in New York.
Stories even were told of him shunning people as a head coach that he had been friends with when he was an intern.
Perhaps this won't matter.
Perhaps he'll grow from his mistakes.
Or perhaps he'll win big and be the same guy and few will notice — much like Belichick with the New England Patriots.
None of that means he can't win.
But it does make it a little more difficult for everyone to be pulling in the same direction.
Too, the Jets' season did not end on an up note.
Brett Favre did not help, no, but one would think an 8-3 team would not end the season losing to three losing teams in the final five games.
Perhaps Mangini's football smarts will carry the day and the fourth head coach hired by the Browns since 1999 will be the right one.
Here's a fact that might or might not be relevant: Nine of the past 11 Super Bowls have been won by coaches working for their second team (Tom Coughlin, Tony Dungy, Belichick, Jon Gruden, Dick Vermeil, Mike Shanahan).
But Bernie Kosar was on WKNR (850-AM) Wednesday afternoon, and he was asked about Mangini.
He waffled about not wanting to get in trouble with people he talks to in Berea, and not wanting to say too much, then went back to the old ''well maybe he's learned from his first experience'' stance.
My personal translation: Geesh, I'm hearing the same things everyone else is; I just hope the guy wins.
That is the bottom line, of course.
If Mangini wins, all of this window dressing will look a lot better.
And if Lerner can create an environment where he can win the way Robert Kraft did in New England with Belichick — well — who's gonna care if the guy smiles a lot or not.
But this coach with three years of experience as a head coach ran away with this race when no other teams seemed interested in interviewing him.
The general manager's job remains open, and that hire will be key.
Philadelphia Eagles GM Tom Heckert and the Baltimore Ravens' George Kokinis will be interviewed.
Heckert has been on many radars the past couple of years.
Kokinis came to light because Mangini suggested him.
One must ask: Does a three-year stint as head coach and experience with Belichick equate to that much credibility that said coach can have such a strong say in the GM hire?
Lerner wants folks to work together. If he'd hired a GM first, he'd have asked the GM: Who do you want as coach?
Since he found the coach he liked, he asked the similar question: Who do you want to work with as GM?
Makes sense.
It's just that the coach making the suggestion is not Shanahan or Bill Parcells or Bill Cowher or even Brian Billick.
They have loads of experience, and rings earned as head coaches.
The Browns could not get those guys, though, and for whatever reason they chose not to wait for Shanahan after reaching out to him. Which makes it seem to me like Shanahan, who is being paid millions not to coach, was not ready to jump right back into things.
The Browns wanted someone with experience as a head coach and did not want a college coach.
Lerner felt Mangini showed the knowledge. His interview overwhelmed Lerner in terms of football savvy and strategy.
That's good.
And if the interview was really a clinic on football, that's better.
Because it means that in a couple or three years Mangini might prove to be an outstanding hire.
It just doesn't feel that way right now.
>> Mangini acts quickly picking coordinators
>> Be heard: As coach, will Mangini lead the Browns to the playoffs?
Patrick McManamon can be reached at pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com. Read his blog at http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/
It would be nice to jump feet-first, head-over-heels into the pool to celebrate the hiring of Eric Mangini as coach of the Browns.
But it's not possible.
Not today at least.
Yes, there are good reasons owner Randy Lerner made this choice, starting with the fact Lerner spent more time with him than anyone and therefore should know Mangini's pluses and minuses better than those of us who have been observing from afar.
Mangini is experienced. He worked under Bill Belichick. He hopefully learned from any mistakes he made in his three years as coach of the New York Jets. He understands the game. He's very bright. He will bring discipline to players that need discipline.
Those positives are all there.
But the concerns about Mangini just don't go away. Nor did they go away the past few days as it became more and more apparent he was going to be hired.
To say that Mangini was a tough person to work for in New York might be an understatement. People did not think it was a fun place to work.
Some say Mangini tried too hard to be like Belichick. It never works when a coach tries to be someone other than himself.
Interesting, because many also say that Mangini also can be an engaging, good-natured guy — he just wasn't as a head coach in New York.
Stories even were told of him shunning people as a head coach that he had been friends with when he was an intern.
Perhaps this won't matter.
Perhaps he'll grow from his mistakes.
Or perhaps he'll win big and be the same guy and few will notice — much like Belichick with the New England Patriots.
None of that means he can't win.
But it does make it a little more difficult for everyone to be pulling in the same direction.
Too, the Jets' season did not end on an up note.
Brett Favre did not help, no, but one would think an 8-3 team would not end the season losing to three losing teams in the final five games.
Perhaps Mangini's football smarts will carry the day and the fourth head coach hired by the Browns since 1999 will be the right one.
Here's a fact that might or might not be relevant: Nine of the past 11 Super Bowls have been won by coaches working for their second team (Tom Coughlin, Tony Dungy, Belichick, Jon Gruden, Dick Vermeil, Mike Shanahan).
But Bernie Kosar was on WKNR (850-AM) Wednesday afternoon, and he was asked about Mangini.
He waffled about not wanting to get in trouble with people he talks to in Berea, and not wanting to say too much, then went back to the old ''well maybe he's learned from his first experience'' stance.
My personal translation: Geesh, I'm hearing the same things everyone else is; I just hope the guy wins.
That is the bottom line, of course.
If Mangini wins, all of this window dressing will look a lot better.
And if Lerner can create an environment where he can win the way Robert Kraft did in New England with Belichick — well — who's gonna care if the guy smiles a lot or not.
But this coach with three years of experience as a head coach ran away with this race when no other teams seemed interested in interviewing him.
The general manager's job remains open, and that hire will be key.
Philadelphia Eagles GM Tom Heckert and the Baltimore Ravens' George Kokinis will be interviewed.
Heckert has been on many radars the past couple of years.
Kokinis came to light because Mangini suggested him.
One must ask: Does a three-year stint as head coach and experience with Belichick equate to that much credibility that said coach can have such a strong say in the GM hire?
Lerner wants folks to work together. If he'd hired a GM first, he'd have asked the GM: Who do you want as coach?
Since he found the coach he liked, he asked the similar question: Who do you want to work with as GM?
Makes sense.
It's just that the coach making the suggestion is not Shanahan or Bill Parcells or Bill Cowher or even Brian Billick.
They have loads of experience, and rings earned as head coaches.
The Browns could not get those guys, though, and for whatever reason they chose not to wait for Shanahan after reaching out to him. Which makes it seem to me like Shanahan, who is being paid millions not to coach, was not ready to jump right back into things.
The Browns wanted someone with experience as a head coach and did not want a college coach.
Lerner felt Mangini showed the knowledge. His interview overwhelmed Lerner in terms of football savvy and strategy.
That's good.
And if the interview was really a clinic on football, that's better.
Because it means that in a couple or three years Mangini might prove to be an outstanding hire.
It just doesn't feel that way right now.
>> Mangini acts quickly picking coordinators
>> Be heard: As coach, will Mangini lead the Browns to the playoffs?
Patrick McManamon can be reached at pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com. Read his blog at http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/
Comments
Click here to post your comments
Posted 08:06 PM, 01/07/2009
And it doesn't feel right to 90% of the fans either, as witnessed by the responses to the PD story. At least there are two deep footprints on the field at Browns stadium where he can stand, frozen in one spot with a grimace on his face.
Uniontown, OH
Posted 09:22 PM, 01/07/2009
The choice doesn't surprise me one bit. Lerner hired another loser instead of getting a proven coach that has a winning/proven track record. Are you kidding me, hiring Mangini over Shanahan or Marty, what a joke. The Browns keep their streak going of picking losers and I hope the fans stop going to the games before they all have to start wearing bags on their heads. Thanks Mr. Lerner for the great hire. Do yourself a favor and for the fans of Cleveland, get out of football.
Posted 09:30 PM, 01/07/2009
Pat, one thing to ponder. I remember a coach we had that gave us a competetive, but mostly mediocre team and was run out of town after he butted heads with a popular veteran quarterback. He learned from his experiences and went on to be a future Hall of Fame coach with a young, talented quarterback. Not saying that will happen here, but something to think about since the situation looks quite similar.
hampton, VA
Posted 09:32 PM, 01/07/2009
My only comment about Mangini is this: keep in mind that it was Mangini who blew the whistle on the NE Patriots' cheating ways. I'm no fan of cheating, and it might have been the right thing to do, but it lost a ton of credibility within the closed community of the NFL for Mangini. He might be considered a rat that no one wants to work for, to play for, or to be associated with. Everyone knows that every head coach, every team in the NFL does everything possible to "gain an advantage" (read: cheat) on Sunday; no one else was willing to risk their reputation by blowing the whistle.
Virginia Beach, VA
Posted 10:01 PM, 01/07/2009
It's done. I'm jumping on the Mangenius bandwagon and riding it into the ground before I consider pushing it over the cliff. Rather than turn our backs on the Browns, we should be grateful there will always be next year.
Port Saint Lucie, Fl
Posted 10:02 PM, 01/07/2009
We shall see.But i don't know how much difference any coach would(will) make with the personel Cleveland has.If he can make them a TEAM, and not just a bunch guys running around wearing football uniforms,then it will be a good hire.Let's see who the GM will be and what kind of product they put on the field in "09".Bout all we can do.
Cincinnati, OH
Posted 10:03 PM, 01/07/2009
Lerner felt Mangini showed the knowledge. His interview overwhelmed Lerner in terms of football savvy and strategy.
As dumb as Randy Lerner seems to be about football I'm guessing it didn't take much to impress him.
Posted 10:40 PM, 01/07/2009
"As dumb as Randy Lerner seems to be about football I'm guessing it didn't take much to impress him."
RL commented that he was, "blown away" by RAC when he interviewed him four years ago. Nuff said!
Tallmadge, OH
Posted 07:53 AM, 01/08/2009
If it doesn't feel right to you Browns'
fans, join the Akron Pittsburgh Steelrs fan club. We always feel right because we are in the playoffs and competing for the championship just about every year. GO STEELERS !!!
akron, oh
Posted 08:58 AM, 01/08/2009
i think we got the best guy that wanted to come to cleveland because no one better wants to come here Shanahan or Marty
Posted 08:59 AM, 01/08/2009
Nah, OMG.
Why would Browns' fans want to support a team which is in the playoffs just about every year?
Marty was available, and apparently was not seriously considered.
Marty Schottenheimer. Ranked 4th ALL TIME for coaching his teams into the playoffs. Three guys, named Paul Brown, Don Shula, and Tom Landry, head up this exclusive list.
Lerner doesn't want to be bothered with playoffs. I don't want to be bothered with the Browns.
This Place, 32
Posted 09:45 AM, 01/08/2009
Hey Cleveland, can you spell the following words?
Touchdown.
Win.
See, I already spelled it out for you. So how about you do both.
Posted 09:47 AM, 01/08/2009
Ed,
You said "RL commented that he was, "blown away" by RAC when he interviewed him four years ago. Nuff said!"
Really? I don't remember this. Randy was not in charge when Crennel was hired. Crennel was hired primarily by Savage (who was GM) and John Collins who was President at the time. And Al Lerner was still in charge of the Browns then.
Some of you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You're so upset that the Browns sucked this bad (I guess you expected a Super Bowl after 2007's 10-6 record) that you are just hating everything they do.
Who should have been hired? Most of the names being thrown around (Cowher, Shannahan, Shottenheimer) are either not interested in coaching, or not interested in the Browns. You can't hire somebody just because that is the person you want. They have to agree to the job.
Akron, OH
Posted 09:47 AM, 01/08/2009
The Mangani pick does not feel right. But, as a Cleveland fan, it is hard to find anything that feels right at this point. BUT...Marty is not the answer!
Good grief...4th all time! If you are going to compare him to Paul Brown, Don Shula, and Tom Landry, you have to tell the whole story. One big diffence between them the number of RINGS! They won the big games. Marty lost them. All of them! He has never proved he can win THE game.
Posted 09:49 AM, 01/08/2009
Carbunkle,
Marty was also run out of town after losing 3 AFC Championship games. And now you think he wants to come back to Cleveland. The Browns also had Belichick as a coach, but apparently he wasn't ready yet.
You all seem to think that there are 100 candidates out there better than Mangini who are willing to come to Cleveland. You're so out of touch with reality it is almost funny.
And OMG, s c r e w the Steelers. No respectible Browns fan would turn into a Steeler fan.
cuyahoga falls, oh
Posted 10:10 AM, 01/08/2009
Hahahahahahaahahahahahaha!! the downward spiral continues!!
Barberton, OH
Posted 10:20 AM, 01/08/2009
All the Browns fans, myself included, better start preparing to get into some fantasy football leagues because I hope no one expects any wins from this team for the next three years while we wait for Mangini to run his course through the team. Oh well. I probably wouldn't be so angry about this hire had we gotten a GM first. I just don't like the concept of a coach picking the GM or the team owner possibly having to pick a GM that only Mangini wants. It puts too many limitations on a team that needs proven winners.
Barberton, OH
Posted 10:28 AM, 01/08/2009
Oh my. Even better, we're taking Rob Ryan from Oakland as our defensive coordinator. A guy who has consistently put out bottom tier defenses the past three seasons there. You go Mangina!!
Posted 10:42 AM, 01/08/2009
Hey Grump,
I predict a Steelers loss this Sunday simply because I don't think Big Ben is ready. He is bound to make some mistakes i.e. throw interceptions or fumble the ball. I can't wait because it means you will curl up in a little ball or go look to hide under a rock some place once you slither out of the dwelling that hosts the "Akron Pittsburgh Steelers Fan Club." Is that in your Mom's basement by the way. Just curious. The clock is ticking on your team. Enjoy it while it lasts.
Akron, Oh
Posted 11:40 AM, 01/08/2009
I am going to just stick with High School Football and younger from now on. Good bye Browns, it has never been the same since you left us the first time. The colleges that play football (at all levels) from Ohio are a disgrace, except for Mount Union.
Posted 11:56 AM, 01/08/2009
I'm still astounded, although I shouldn't be, as to how fans who have only an emotional stake in the Browns can decide how Lerner can spend his millions. Hey folks...it's not our money! The guy has both an emotional and a FINANCIAL stake in the team.
That being said.. I too question the choice but it's his coin and he can do as he pleases as far as I'm concerned. Frankly, as one of my friends stated, "It's too bad they brought the Browns back..it just ruins our Sundays again and I was beginning to enjoy Sunday afternoons finally."
For me, the decision is made and I'll live with it..if it were my money being laid out there..well that may be a different story.
Posted 12:31 PM, 01/08/2009
Pat, it is amazing that you apply a level of critique to a guy who at least made the playoffs once in the last three years (with a bad Jets team!) that you never applied to "nice guy" romeo crennel. I like what I hear from NY about Mangini. I like that everybody didn't love him. My God, the goal of a coach is not to be liked or loved - especially by the media. Give Mangini a chance before writing this kind of article. This is bush league journalism at its worst. And for those who are ready to give up on the Browns already, shame on you. Give this coach a chance to prove his worth on or off the field with the Browns.
Dublin, OH
Posted 12:44 PM, 01/08/2009
I reserve judgement until the end of the 2009 season. No doubt the team needs discipline and structure.
Mangini will bring much needed structure. Plus, hey he wants to come to Cleveland. How many people want to do that these days.
Browns fans need to get over this love affair with Bernie and Marty. Marty has never one a Super Bowl nor has he ever gotten to one. Dick Vermeil he is not. Shannan became Don Shula after his Super Bowl wins and can draw a defense in the dirt.
We need to keep treating Bernie like he is some ultimate source of NFL wisdom. He was a great quarterback in his day but once again he didn't get us anywhere either. Have you ever heard him on the radio or television. Stay in Arena football Bernie.
Fans hated Art Modell for his meddling ways and now we go after Lerner for not being involved. I love it.
Akron, OH
Posted 01:38 PM, 01/08/2009
Steve - Right on.
Posted 01:49 PM, 01/08/2009
I'll hold my judgement for now but I am glad to see a caoch that KNOWS the Browns tradition. Will that translate into WINS? We'll see. My biggest concern is that I don't think RL has a clue about leardership in the NFL not does he seem to fully understand football startegy. Time for a new owner? That's my 1st preference.
I was at the '64 game and I'd love to see the Browns make it to the Super Bowl. Blanton Collier took a bunch of mostly unhearalded players and brought down the mighty Colts. What a game! Jim Brown off tackle, Gary Collins on the post pattern. Ernie Green, Gene Hickerson, Dick Shafraff and the whole defense.
Like it or not, Edwards and Winslow need to go and the defensive backfield needs a whole lotta work!
Sooooo, I have my reservations but I'm willing to wait and see.
San Diego, CA
Posted 02:56 PM, 01/08/2009
Lerner's most important hire will be the GM. You've got to find someone who can really evaluate talent. Too bad Ozzie Newsome feels such a strong loyalty to the Ravens. Seems to me he knows how to get good players for his team.
Right now this organization needs a plan and some continuity. You can't keep changing everything. A smart steady hand at the top (GM or team president) is really needed here.
Cleveland, OH
Posted 03:07 PM, 01/08/2009
If Mangini wins both he and Lerner will be hailed as heroes. He seems to have the requisite background and we shall see what happens.
I'm skeptical about Kokinis but read something interesting in the PD about Ernie Acorsi. Apparently he assisted the Falcons in their general manager search last year and Kokinis was one of three names Acorsi suggested to Arthur Blank as the best candidates including the guys who was hired (Heckert was the other). Take it for what it is worth but I respect the opinion of Acorsi.
Posted 03:35 PM, 01/08/2009
SanDiego, you make some great points. It is too bad Ozzie is such a sell out that he stays loyal to the anti-Browns. You would think he would want to give something back to the community that gave so much to him - rather than keep an allegiance to Modell's ravens. Very disappointing.
Cuyahoga Falls, OH
Posted 04:42 PM, 01/08/2009
It doesn't "feel" right? Then GOOD. Because if it did feel right then it means we're in for four more years of the same-old same-old, with some coach treading water while the team just does whatever it wants.
If we expect things to change on the team, then we as fans will have to be flexible if something feels "wrong" or out of place to us... because that's what change is.
So at this point I say the more uncomfortable the fit, the better.
cuyahoga falls, oh
Posted 05:18 PM, 01/08/2009
lerner seems unable to grasp that most Browns fans despise Bill Bellyache and yet he can't stop hiring people he trained...
lerner never made an early move for marty or cowher even though he had an entire year to do so, as if Crennel might take us someplace besides home as losers
maybe he can give this guy a 50 year extension next year for going .500 with one of the easiest schedules in the NFL season
this guy could be called the return of nick skorich
sad.
copley, oh
Posted 08:18 PM, 01/08/2009
Ok guy's you can bash Lerner all ya want on this one.But i again i like this hiring he has experience.It will take a year to rebuild at the most.I love how he already made changes wiped out the rest of the coaching staff and brought in his own i have no problems with that.Why are you bashing Marty he was greatest coach we ever had.I know he never got to the Super Bowl but it was not his fault someone fumbled and the defense fell apart agaisnt the drive in 96.But back to the present i feel good about Mangini.This guy will get us back to 500 at best.And hopefully more the following year.Hey who would you guys take with the 5 pick?
Posted 09:36 PM, 01/08/2009
Thanks, Steve. I stopped reading after yours, but first I had to read a bunch of BS "I hate everything" posts. I'm so sick of all you wallow-in-your-own-self-pity Browns "fans." This has got to be the most irritatingly negative town in sports. You better all live up to your own words and stay the hell out of the stadium no matter how well the Browns' season may go. You don't want to be involved. Good. Go away. No one needs you. As for me, I will allow that the coach is more important than the GM (the coach actually COACHES the team), so it no problem to hire a coach first. And I will support Mangini because he is a smart football guy, and it seems he just got a huge monkey off his back in getting out of New York and getting a fresh start. He's excited to be here. He feels comfortable here, and that enthusiasm is huge. The locker room won't be a frat party like it was with Romeo- and that, too, is huge. Those of you with the gift of clairvoyance can see already that this will be a failure. Well, thanks for the tip. I'm on board anyway, and you won't be missed.
Go Browns.
akron, OH
Posted 11:53 AM, 01/09/2009
I'll just wait and see before making a judgement on what kind of coach he'll be. Most Browns' fans thought Belinchek was a bad coach including myself.I'm willing to judge the man after I see what kind of talent the team put on the field.Talent is still the supreme equalizer.My main concern is for defensive playmakers, this team has the worst linebackers in the NFL.In the upcoming draft this is our most important postition to fill.
Smethport, Pa
Posted 09:37 PM, 01/10/2009
dcurf...AMEN to that... i couldn't have said it better GO BROWNS!!
