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Do IT this week: Layering
By Patrick McManamon
Beacon Journal sports columnist
POSTED: 08:25 a.m. EST, Jan 11, 2009
One of the first things coach Eric Mangini addressed when he was hired was the great tradition of the Browns.
Everyone does that when they come to Cleveland.
But it's time to stop. Because the tradition is a myth, and it engenders nothing but unrealistic expectations that make bad situations worse.
Except for a couple of stretches, the Browns' great tradition has been dormant since the NFL-AFL merger in 1971.
The numbers in 36 seasons clearly show that fact:
• A won-lost record of 248-301-3 since the merger, which is winning 45 percent of the time.
• An average record each season of 7-8.
• Fourteen winning seasons out of 36.
• Eleven playoff teams, meaning the Browns have made the playoffs less than one-third of the time.
There was success in the Sam Rutigliano and Marty Schottenheimer era, but since Schottenheimer left things have been worse:
• A 102-169-1 record (wins in 37.5 percent of the games).
• Four winning seasons in 17.
• Three playoff teams out of 17 seasons.
• Six coaches, including Mangini.
Since 1990, the Browns have been in the playoffs twice, going 1-2. That's three playoff games in 18 years (three without football).
That's an entire generation that has grown up without a winning team, with nothing but talk of Otto Graham and Jim Brown and Paul Warfield.
Former General Manager Phil Savage talked about putting some of those great memories into color when he arrived, and he was right. Most of them are in black and white.
The Browns had an unbelievable tradition in the 1950s when Graham and Marion Motley played and Paul Brown was coach. It continued with Jim Brown and Frank Ryan and Blanton Collier in the '60s.
Since, though, it has been a series of missteps, with the occasional blip of good fortune.
They're one of very few teams that never has been to a Super Bowl, and their overall playoff record is 11-20.
This is tradition only to those who believe that the past can magically appear merely because the helmet is orange and the jersey brown. It's the same thinking that said Bill Cowher would walk through hot coals to coach the team merely because it's the Browns.
It's just not there anymore.
And it's time to recognize that this Browns team is not your grandfather's team.
These Browns are in a position where they have to earn the faith and trust of the fans paying the tickets.
Perhaps the fans are starting to recognize that reality. During a recent Trans Siberian Orchestra show at Quicken Loans Arena, lead guitarist Chris Caffery appeared to cheers when he wore an Indians jersey.
When he removed it he was wearing a Browns jersey. The crowd booed. At an event where people were there to have fun, there were so many boos Caffery had to say: ''This isn't polite.''
Fans will return, of course. They always do. But it's time the team produced, and perhaps the hiring of Mangini will produce long-expected results.
Tradition doesn't win a single game.
Winning generates tradition.
That's where the Browns find themselves: Needing to win to generate some new and true tradition.
The cult of the Browns has been living off a myth. The team's tradition died in a time long ago and far away.
Vote for the Utes!
Give me a vote for the Top 25 in college football and Utah would be No. 1.
It's not even a tough choice.
Utah did everything it could to win the national title but still finished behind a team with one loss.
That's not right.
Utah deserves the top ranking.
It beat every team on its schedule.
It beat four Top 25 teams, including Alabama handily in a bowl after the Crimson Tide had been ranked No.1 for five weeks.
It beat Oregon State, the only team to beat USC.
It did all it could within its power to win the national title.
And it can't do more because the Bowl Championship Series won't let it.
The BCS system is about finding a national champion, but it's also about enriching the major conferences that run the BCS.
It might sound silly that the state attorney general of Utah is looking at the BCS to see if it violates antitrust laws — until you read the rules.
The BCS distributes about $9.5 million among Conference USA, the Mid-American, Mountain West, Sun Belt and Western Athletic conferences for making their teams available to the BCS.
If a school from those conferences reaches the BCS, an additional 9 percent of BCS money goes to those conferences.
If more than one school from those conferences makes the BCS, those conferences make an additional $4.5 million.
But (it's always after the ''but'' that's most important) the ACC, Big East, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-10 and SEC receive an automatic BCS spot, and those conferences each get $18 million.
If a second team reaches the BCS, that conference gets an additional $4.5 million.
Clearly, one could make a legitimate case that Florida and Oklahoma played tougher schedules than Utah. But that's based on the same rankings that enrich the BCS teams.
Clearly, any right-minded person would pick Florida over Utah. Heck, Utah might not be favored if they played 10 times.
But Utah could win — and if there's any doubt just ask the former Utah coach and present Florida coach, Urban Meyer. Think he would deny the Utes could win a big game?
If they played on the field, Utah would have the chance to win. The BCS does not provide that chance.
Without a playoff, the best judge of a team's success in college football are wins and losses.
Utah won every game it could win.
The Utes deserve to be No. 1.
Random thoughts . . .
• The recent snow has made it awful hard to work on the crab dribble, hasn't it?
• A few readers e-mailed to ask if the Browns truly complied with the Rooney Rule, which requires teams interview minority candidates for head coaching openings.
The Browns interviewed defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, a surprise given the struggles of the defense this past season.
His candidacy seemed a long shot, at best, but NFL Vice President Greg Aiello wrote this in an e-mail: ''If they interviewed a minority coach, they complied with the rule.''
• The hiring of Rob Ryan as defensive coordinator, though not yet official, is exciting. At long last, the Browns will have a defense that attacks. Consistently.
• Mangini did a nice job sidestepping the issue of the Browns quarterback.
Here's a thought he might or might not agree with: Keep Derek Anderson. Because last season had to prove that a team can never have enough quarterbacks.
And if one or the other doesn't like not starting, well that's just too bad.
• The Indians signing of starting pitcher Carl Pavano is one of those low-risk gambles the team likes. And only in the world of crab dribbles can $1.5 million be called low risk.
• Pavano brings baggage — like 26 games in four years and the ire of the New York Yankees, who felt he let them down — but the Indians point to him as a potential Kevin Millwood, if everything goes right.
• We shall see.
• Said Indians GM Mark Shapiro of Pavano: ''He's motivated. I think it's a timing issue. I think we're getting him at the right time.''
• Anthony Reyes will be in the rotation — if he's over the arm trouble that ended his season early in 2008. ''Until he gets on the mound with an umpire, you'll never really know,'' Shapiro said. ''But I think we'll know during spring training.''
• Shapiro on hopes that Travis Hafner returns healthy: ''Haf represents the upside of our offense. We scored the sixth most runs in the AL last year without Haf and Vic (Victor Martinez). That to me gives us a strong foundation knowing Vic is going to be back and really feeling positive about Haf being back. If Haf comes back anywhere close to his average type numbers, I feel we have a chance to enter into an elite type of offense again. Even if he doesn't, I fell we'll still have a good offense.''
• ESPN's Peter Gammons said this on the Boston Globe's Web site: ''The Indians may have had the best offseason of anyone.''
He added: ''And they can't sell tickets.''
• Not exactly true. The Indians are only a little behind where they expected to be. And they have instituted a buy-one, get-one season ticket package in the top four or five rows of the upper deck. Two seats for the price of one, which averages out to about $13 per seat for the 81 games.
• Another nameless GM told the Boston Globe that with their moves the Indians very well could resemble the 2007 team that went to the American League Championship Series.
• Both forgot that this is an odd-numbered year, which means the Indians will play well. Odd-numbered years bring wins to the Indians and crab dribbles to the Cavaliers.
• Seriously now? A crab dribble?
• There are rumors out there that the Boston Celtics might try to acquire forward Joe Smith. The Cavs cannot let this happen.
Because the Cavs need Smith, and because the Cavs cannot let the Celtics get Smith, which would be just what the Celtics need.
• Boston's recent slump might be an indication of age.
• It really doesn't matter if it's an indication of age or faulty crab dribble fundamentals if the Cavs get the homecourt advantage in the playoffs.
That would be a great boon to the good chances this team already has.
• They just can't let Smith go to the Celtics.
• Boston College actually held a coach accountable to his contract when it fired Jeff Jagodzinski for interviewing with the New York Jets.
Novel concept there, eh? Expecting a coach to actually live up to the contract he signed.
• Yes, teams and schools break the deals when they fire a coach, but they also have to pay the coach.
• Browns offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski is due to be paid $2.7 million and $2.9 million the next two years. He'll interview for other jobs.
• If and when he's hired, why not have the other team pay him $200,000 the next two years and let the Browns make up the difference?
• Overheard in a local coffee shop from a gentleman who glanced at the newspaper: ''Mangini? Yeah. I don't know what they're doing.''
• Umm . . . trying to win?
• They're sure not trying to perfect the crab dribble.
• A crab dribble here, a crab dribble there. Here a crab dribble, there a crab dribble
• Until next time . . . there you have it.
Patrick McManamon can be reached at pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com. Read his blog at http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/
One of the first things coach Eric Mangini addressed when he was hired was the great tradition of the Browns.
Everyone does that when they come to Cleveland.
But it's time to stop. Because the tradition is a myth, and it engenders nothing but unrealistic expectations that make bad situations worse.
Except for a couple of stretches, the Browns' great tradition has been dormant since the NFL-AFL merger in 1971.
The numbers in 36 seasons clearly show that fact:
• A won-lost record of 248-301-3 since the merger, which is winning 45 percent of the time.
• An average record each season of 7-8.
• Fourteen winning seasons out of 36.
• Eleven playoff teams, meaning the Browns have made the playoffs less than one-third of the time.
There was success in the Sam Rutigliano and Marty Schottenheimer era, but since Schottenheimer left things have been worse:
• A 102-169-1 record (wins in 37.5 percent of the games).
• Four winning seasons in 17.
• Three playoff teams out of 17 seasons.
• Six coaches, including Mangini.
Since 1990, the Browns have been in the playoffs twice, going 1-2. That's three playoff games in 18 years (three without football).
That's an entire generation that has grown up without a winning team, with nothing but talk of Otto Graham and Jim Brown and Paul Warfield.
Former General Manager Phil Savage talked about putting some of those great memories into color when he arrived, and he was right. Most of them are in black and white.
The Browns had an unbelievable tradition in the 1950s when Graham and Marion Motley played and Paul Brown was coach. It continued with Jim Brown and Frank Ryan and Blanton Collier in the '60s.
Since, though, it has been a series of missteps, with the occasional blip of good fortune.
They're one of very few teams that never has been to a Super Bowl, and their overall playoff record is 11-20.
This is tradition only to those who believe that the past can magically appear merely because the helmet is orange and the jersey brown. It's the same thinking that said Bill Cowher would walk through hot coals to coach the team merely because it's the Browns.
It's just not there anymore.
And it's time to recognize that this Browns team is not your grandfather's team.
These Browns are in a position where they have to earn the faith and trust of the fans paying the tickets.
Perhaps the fans are starting to recognize that reality. During a recent Trans Siberian Orchestra show at Quicken Loans Arena, lead guitarist Chris Caffery appeared to cheers when he wore an Indians jersey.
When he removed it he was wearing a Browns jersey. The crowd booed. At an event where people were there to have fun, there were so many boos Caffery had to say: ''This isn't polite.''
Fans will return, of course. They always do. But it's time the team produced, and perhaps the hiring of Mangini will produce long-expected results.
Tradition doesn't win a single game.
Winning generates tradition.
That's where the Browns find themselves: Needing to win to generate some new and true tradition.
The cult of the Browns has been living off a myth. The team's tradition died in a time long ago and far away.
Vote for the Utes!
Give me a vote for the Top 25 in college football and Utah would be No. 1.
It's not even a tough choice.
Utah did everything it could to win the national title but still finished behind a team with one loss.
That's not right.
Utah deserves the top ranking.
It beat every team on its schedule.
It beat four Top 25 teams, including Alabama handily in a bowl after the Crimson Tide had been ranked No.1 for five weeks.
It beat Oregon State, the only team to beat USC.
It did all it could within its power to win the national title.
And it can't do more because the Bowl Championship Series won't let it.
The BCS system is about finding a national champion, but it's also about enriching the major conferences that run the BCS.
It might sound silly that the state attorney general of Utah is looking at the BCS to see if it violates antitrust laws — until you read the rules.
The BCS distributes about $9.5 million among Conference USA, the Mid-American, Mountain West, Sun Belt and Western Athletic conferences for making their teams available to the BCS.
If a school from those conferences reaches the BCS, an additional 9 percent of BCS money goes to those conferences.
If more than one school from those conferences makes the BCS, those conferences make an additional $4.5 million.
But (it's always after the ''but'' that's most important) the ACC, Big East, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-10 and SEC receive an automatic BCS spot, and those conferences each get $18 million.
If a second team reaches the BCS, that conference gets an additional $4.5 million.
Clearly, one could make a legitimate case that Florida and Oklahoma played tougher schedules than Utah. But that's based on the same rankings that enrich the BCS teams.
Clearly, any right-minded person would pick Florida over Utah. Heck, Utah might not be favored if they played 10 times.
But Utah could win — and if there's any doubt just ask the former Utah coach and present Florida coach, Urban Meyer. Think he would deny the Utes could win a big game?
If they played on the field, Utah would have the chance to win. The BCS does not provide that chance.
Without a playoff, the best judge of a team's success in college football are wins and losses.
Utah won every game it could win.
The Utes deserve to be No. 1.
Random thoughts . . .
• The recent snow has made it awful hard to work on the crab dribble, hasn't it?
• A few readers e-mailed to ask if the Browns truly complied with the Rooney Rule, which requires teams interview minority candidates for head coaching openings.
The Browns interviewed defensive coordinator Mel Tucker, a surprise given the struggles of the defense this past season.
His candidacy seemed a long shot, at best, but NFL Vice President Greg Aiello wrote this in an e-mail: ''If they interviewed a minority coach, they complied with the rule.''
• The hiring of Rob Ryan as defensive coordinator, though not yet official, is exciting. At long last, the Browns will have a defense that attacks. Consistently.
• Mangini did a nice job sidestepping the issue of the Browns quarterback.
Here's a thought he might or might not agree with: Keep Derek Anderson. Because last season had to prove that a team can never have enough quarterbacks.
And if one or the other doesn't like not starting, well that's just too bad.
• The Indians signing of starting pitcher Carl Pavano is one of those low-risk gambles the team likes. And only in the world of crab dribbles can $1.5 million be called low risk.
• Pavano brings baggage — like 26 games in four years and the ire of the New York Yankees, who felt he let them down — but the Indians point to him as a potential Kevin Millwood, if everything goes right.
• We shall see.
• Said Indians GM Mark Shapiro of Pavano: ''He's motivated. I think it's a timing issue. I think we're getting him at the right time.''
• Anthony Reyes will be in the rotation — if he's over the arm trouble that ended his season early in 2008. ''Until he gets on the mound with an umpire, you'll never really know,'' Shapiro said. ''But I think we'll know during spring training.''
• Shapiro on hopes that Travis Hafner returns healthy: ''Haf represents the upside of our offense. We scored the sixth most runs in the AL last year without Haf and Vic (Victor Martinez). That to me gives us a strong foundation knowing Vic is going to be back and really feeling positive about Haf being back. If Haf comes back anywhere close to his average type numbers, I feel we have a chance to enter into an elite type of offense again. Even if he doesn't, I fell we'll still have a good offense.''
• ESPN's Peter Gammons said this on the Boston Globe's Web site: ''The Indians may have had the best offseason of anyone.''
He added: ''And they can't sell tickets.''
• Not exactly true. The Indians are only a little behind where they expected to be. And they have instituted a buy-one, get-one season ticket package in the top four or five rows of the upper deck. Two seats for the price of one, which averages out to about $13 per seat for the 81 games.
• Another nameless GM told the Boston Globe that with their moves the Indians very well could resemble the 2007 team that went to the American League Championship Series.
• Both forgot that this is an odd-numbered year, which means the Indians will play well. Odd-numbered years bring wins to the Indians and crab dribbles to the Cavaliers.
• Seriously now? A crab dribble?
• There are rumors out there that the Boston Celtics might try to acquire forward Joe Smith. The Cavs cannot let this happen.
Because the Cavs need Smith, and because the Cavs cannot let the Celtics get Smith, which would be just what the Celtics need.
• Boston's recent slump might be an indication of age.
• It really doesn't matter if it's an indication of age or faulty crab dribble fundamentals if the Cavs get the homecourt advantage in the playoffs.
That would be a great boon to the good chances this team already has.
• They just can't let Smith go to the Celtics.
• Boston College actually held a coach accountable to his contract when it fired Jeff Jagodzinski for interviewing with the New York Jets.
Novel concept there, eh? Expecting a coach to actually live up to the contract he signed.
• Yes, teams and schools break the deals when they fire a coach, but they also have to pay the coach.
• Browns offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski is due to be paid $2.7 million and $2.9 million the next two years. He'll interview for other jobs.
• If and when he's hired, why not have the other team pay him $200,000 the next two years and let the Browns make up the difference?
• Overheard in a local coffee shop from a gentleman who glanced at the newspaper: ''Mangini? Yeah. I don't know what they're doing.''
• Umm . . . trying to win?
• They're sure not trying to perfect the crab dribble.
• A crab dribble here, a crab dribble there. Here a crab dribble, there a crab dribble
• Until next time . . . there you have it.
Patrick McManamon can be reached at pmcmanamon@thebeaconjournal.com. Read his blog at http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/mcmanamon/
Comments
Click here to post your comments
Akron, OH
Posted 02:25 PM, 01/09/2009
In my mind the most important and most obvious factor in the downslide of the Cleveland Browns was the purchase of the franchise by Modell.
Sincerely
RMK
akron, oh
Posted 02:55 PM, 01/09/2009
Obviously McManamon is not a fan. We as Browns fans certainly don't need your articles to remind us of past seasons.Maybe you would do better in the fashion section.
Posted 02:55 PM, 01/09/2009
The Cleveland Browns have a long standing tradition, a losing one. I hope that under the new coaching, the tradition continues.
Akron, OH
Posted 03:05 PM, 01/09/2009
Tradition? The true Browns tradition left town with Modell.
These guys are not only a myth, but a sham. An insult to the true Browns legacy. Change the name.
Posted 03:15 PM, 01/09/2009
The Browns tradition left town with Modell. That team is the Browns just wearing a different uniform. The history of these Cleveland Browns started in 1999. Their record is horrendous.
Akron, OH
Posted 03:17 PM, 01/09/2009
Wow, you guys all suck. Why forget the legacy that this team DID have, however long ago? I mean, the Red Sox had an 86 YEAR dry spell, and now they've won the World Series twice in the past decade. And guess what? The true fans stuck by their team, through the good and the bad. That's what being a fan is. Pat, you say that the ticket buyers deserve better? Well, sure, but nobody is MAKING these people buy their tickets. They do that on their own. To show support, comraderie, and hope. You have complaints about the franchise? Don't watch the games or read the articles then. You're obviously not a true fan. Sure, there are screwups within the organization. Guess what, there are screwups within any organization, professional, minor league, or otherwise. That's how the game goes. So to all the naysayers, back off. To all my fellow true fans, I'll see you at training camp.
Posted 03:32 PM, 01/09/2009
The BCS is a joke. It is also a monopoly. I hope the attorny general of Utah takes it down and reveals it for what it is which is a multi billion dollar industry that may be in violation of US anti-trust laws. As far as the Browns, I love them and have loved them my entire life, but your right Pat. The tradition left a long time ago. I am almost 47 years old. I was two the last time they won anything which means even people my age have no memory of them winning anything but a few division titles in the 1980's. I despise Pittsburgh. My favorite Browns player of all time might just be Turkey Joe Jones. I hope someone does the same thing to Rothlisberger that he did to Bradshaw in the 70's. Don't paralyze him or end his career though. I would not wish that on anyone.
Long Beach, CA
Posted 03:42 PM, 01/09/2009
To be a Browns fan you have to be an ancient historian. That being admitted, a myth is a story, history, good history is true. Browns history isn't myth, just very very old....like me. We need to build on that history, not discount or forget it. That Turkey Jones thing was a great moment in football.
Posted 03:56 PM, 01/09/2009
the expansion browns tradition is garbage football.
the browns that won championships left and became the ravens.
that is a fact. learn to live with it.
Bluffton, SC
Posted 04:54 PM, 01/09/2009
Craig....
Not being criticle but it brought back some great memories
It's Joe "Turkey" Jones. It was absolutely great when Joe Jones planted Terry Bradshaw into the stadium turf. Pittspuke's Jack Lambert returned the favor and planted Brian Sipe into the "concrete" turf in Pittspuke.
Go Brownies !
Bluffton, SC
Posted 04:56 PM, 01/09/2009
Craig....
Not being "critical" (I can't spell when I'm in a hurry) but it brought back some great memories
It's Joe "Turkey" Jones. It was absolutely great when Joe Jones planted Terry Bradshaw into the stadium turf. Pittspuke's Jack Lambert returned the favor and planted Brian Sipe into the "concrete" turf in Pittspuke.
Go Brownies !
Bluffton, SC
Posted 05:02 PM, 01/09/2009
Not to be critical but I can't spell critical in a hurry.
Tallmadge, Oh
Posted 05:03 PM, 01/09/2009
Steelers in the Super Bowl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 05:51 PM, 01/09/2009
That's too bad about that poor GM. It can't be good being nameless. Not as bad as shapeless or homeless, I suppose. But sad just the same. It wouldn't be good to be nameless.
medina, OH
Posted 06:51 PM, 01/09/2009
Pat we still have a tradition . Its just not the one we want.
Posted 08:49 PM, 01/09/2009
Hey Jimgreen, rumor in Hollywood was that Alan Hale wnet both ways. Some mentor for you?
Akron, OH
Posted 11:48 PM, 01/09/2009
I believe that the majority of posters have no knowledge of the great football team that the Browns were when Paul Brown was the coach. I say it again, Modell was the guy who ruined pro football in Cleveland.
rmk
Reston, VA
Posted 10:14 AM, 01/10/2009
You cannot deny the numbers when looking at the Browns.
But this team has great tradition that continues to build to this day. What makes this team so special is the passion and resiliency of its fans. In this light, the Browns tradition is bright and unlike any other in the NFL.
No other city had stood up to the NFL and won a fight like Cleveland did to get their team back. Other cities may have tried. But they didn't win. Not Baltimore with the Colts. Not Oakland. Not Saint Louis. Not LA.
There are few cities in the league whose teams matter as much to fans as in Cleveland. That doesn't happen with Browns fans. Maybe a place like Denver or Pittsburgh would have fought as hard – but they have not had to and they likely won’t ever have to be put to that test.
So Pat is right. The Browns recent past and present record is shameful. It is also shameful that since ’99, the actual Browns team has not played in a manner worthy of these fans.
The Browns however, still matter too much to too many people for us to give up hope now. Browns fans can be proud of the tradition they continue to build in their unwavering commitment to their team.
Akron, Oh
Posted 12:03 PM, 01/10/2009
People are like sheep. Sheep will follow eachother anywhere, even off of a cliff to their doom. While I miss the days of the real Browns, real football. I do not miss Sundays anymore. Even if this version of the Browns wins the Super Bowl for ten years straight I will not come back to pro football. When the Browns left town I found out that the REAL football players are the peewee and highschool kids. I would rather pay $200 ( I just stated that much money to get my point across ) to watch them play. I do not watch pro football on TV, and you could not get me to go a Super Bowl, even if it was for free. The only reason why I even looked at the article was because it mentions something about the Browns' tradition. I do not mean to sound bitter, but with today's economy my money and time has to go to something that actually matters.
Posted 01:36 PM, 01/10/2009
The REAL Browns are the Baltimore Ravens don't forget. Go Steelers!!!
Long Beach, CA
Posted 08:42 PM, 01/10/2009
My grand father's Browns? They aren't even MY team. My Browns were the Kardiac Kids, and the Browns of Bernie, Webster, Mack and Hanford.
Not these losers we have had for 10 years.
I am still angered that the **NFL** did not respect our tradition. They let Modell screw us, the best fans in the NFL, when they let him go to Baltimore--when he had the support of 80,000 fans every frigging Sunday.
So if you want to point the finger of blame to why the Browns of today suck, point it at the NFL, who allowed this mess in the first place.
I try to look at this team as the Browns, I really do. It is hard because they still do not play like MY Browns did. They dont know the meaning of beating Pittsburgh. They dont know what the REAL Pound was. They never played in the old gray Stadium, where the sounds of decades of great games and players still lingered in the tunnels.
I just haven't felt the same about the team since that day in 1995. Because that was the day I realized the Browns did not belong to me, or to anyone else in Cleveland--our beloved team belonged to whoever had a few silver coins to throw at them. Nothing I have seen since (PSL's, overpaid players and corporate loges) has changed that perception.
When players take to the field and play their heart out for this city like Bernie and Clay and Ozzie did, perhaps this will once again be MY team.
In the meantime, I follow the team and wave my orange and brown, but it aint the same. Not by a long shot.
Smethport, Pa
Posted 09:06 PM, 01/10/2009
I'm with you Ally. What's wrong with you people? haven't you ever heard the term "SUPPORT YOUR TEAM"? if you think so little of the Browns then stop watching them. i for one am looking forward to next season. GO BROWNS!!
A, O
Posted 09:17 AM, 01/11/2009
The real Browns are the Cincinnati Bengals! Moron Steelers fan!
Go Ravens!!!!
Bethesda, MD
Posted 09:40 AM, 01/11/2009
Who are the real Browns? Ravens? Bengals? Deep question. I'd say the Browns fans do a good job of staying away from nostalgia. They just want to win.
Can't wait for the Cavs to play Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Oh wait, they don't have a basketball team because they are weak sports markets. Come to think of it, they don't even have baseball teams.
Tallmadge, OH
Posted 05:17 PM, 01/11/2009
The myth about the Browns is that they ever won anything. The truth is the Browns haven't won any championship games since 1964 and that team is now the Baltimore Ravens. As for me, GO STEELERS !!!
Stow, OH
Posted 05:45 PM, 01/11/2009
@ DAG 823, I wouldn't be praising our Browns and how we stood up to the NFL too quickly ,LA is the true hero because they refused to drink the NFL koolaid and buy into the PSL scam and told them to stick it. The NFL got exactly what they wanted, they wanted Cleveland to build a new stadium with our tax dollars and then they forced everyone to buy a PSL to have the privilege to buy the over priced tickets to watch a inferior football team . Yeah ,we sure showed them didn't we ?
somewhere near you, US
Posted 06:40 PM, 01/11/2009
The tradition of the clowns being a team of losers that figures out new and inventive ways to screw up each week is still intact.
That tradition will NEVER fade to a myth.
Posted 08:55 PM, 01/11/2009
Once again, Pat: Leave town. We are tired of you. Many of us just flat out hate you. There is no sophisticated way of saying it, so... you suck. The people who sign your paycheck are obvious dolts.
Hey, Beacon! How about hiring someone who doesn't write complete waste so we have something to read around here. (And if you think you're sly, and saying to yourself "You obviously read this." then you are wrong. I read two lines and became enraged at this filth- as always- and skipped ahead to express dissatisfaction- as always.) Maybe some of us might get home delivery again. What a pathetic joke.
Recap: Pat sucks; Beacon sucks for paying him to suck. God, I'm tired of this drivel...
Posted 08:57 PM, 01/11/2009
I'm taking ohio.com out of my bookmarks and putting the Plain Dealer's site in. I'm done with this. Follow suit Cleveland sports fans. Don't let these clueless fools punch us in the mouth any more.
(Reminder: Pat McManamon sucks.)
Posted 08:59 PM, 01/11/2009
I'm taking ohio.com out of my bookmarks and putting the Plain Dealer's site in. I'm done with this. Follow suit Cleveland sports fans. Don't let these clueless fools punch us in the mouth anymore.
copley, oh
Posted 09:34 PM, 01/11/2009
Hey guy's and gal's what ia all this bickering about.Plain and simple im glad the Brown's are back.But it's going to be a couple of year's before we see result's from the Mangini camp.Yes the good time's are in the past.And it's fun to relive the moment's.Yes we have never gone to the Super Bowl.But we do have World Championship's from the Jim Brown era.What im trying to say is it will get better.But our only shot at a Championship is going to be through the Cavs.
copley, oh
Posted 09:38 PM, 01/11/2009
With the Brown's we need to change the attitdue of the player's and get them to play up to there abliitiy.I say trade Braylon Edward's he has had only good season.And was horrible this year and a cancer to boot.And if we can get a high draft pick for him take it.If we can get some draft picks for some other guy's like make the move's.Cause they are going to be some change's with the players to.
Posted 10:24 PM, 01/11/2009
I must say I've been thinking the same thing. I watched a special on the history of the Browns a few weeks ago and they spent the first 45 minutes on the team prior to 1965. The last 43 years were covered in 15. It's really pathetic that we continue to act as though this team is one of the proudest franchises in the NFL. They have more in common with the Lions, Cardinals (before this season), and Saints than the Steelers, Cowboys, or Packers. This team has no connection whatsoever with the real Browns, but I guess we're stuck with them.
Akron, Oh
Posted 08:06 AM, 01/12/2009
Wile E Coyote,
I was not praising how we stood up to the National Thug League or the Browns. I am sorry that I did not make myself clearer. I have come to the conclusion that coorporate America is just like the drug dealers in the hoods. Think about it. Almost everthing starts off at a low price to get us started. Then when we get "HOOKED" the prices skyrocket.
Posted 09:08 AM, 01/12/2009
Baltimore and Pittsburgh both won World Series more recently than Cleveland, so yes, they have baseball teams.
akron, oh
Posted 12:10 PM, 01/12/2009
pat please move the people that pay 75 cents for a paper deserve more
Millis, MA
Posted 02:34 PM, 01/12/2009
100 % agree regarding Joe Smith. All he did last year with the Cavs is shoot 19 for 27 in the playoff series against the Celts, while rebounding and playing tough D.. While it would be nice to have Joe for some more frontcourt depth, it is even more important to keep him off the Celtics, who are looking to upgrade their roster with a big man.
Regarding the Browns, if a team like a Arizona (a much more pathetic and inept franchise than the Browns) can turn it around in one year and be 1 game from the Super Bowl, then there is hope for the Browns.
A, O
Posted 05:11 PM, 01/12/2009
Go Steelers!
Posted 07:55 PM, 01/12/2009
I just want to get into the play-offs. Then we can talk about the Superbowl. Also if you are a Squeelers fan and on this forum, you are a loser. I don't go on your site so stay off ours!
copley, oh
Posted 12:38 AM, 01/14/2009
Um Steelers still suck i dont care how bad we are.If you like them that much go live there sir.Playoffs are even a stretch.And dude i know you like Joe Smith but what would you rather have Mo Williams who is a beast and the point guard we have been lacking.Yes Joe is good but he will not be on Oklahoma city for long.Someone else will be looking for his service's.Me id rather have Mo.That trade to bring him was nice and id do it again in a hearbeat.I mean come Damon Jones and Joe Smith for a young Mo willimas.You cant tell me you dont like the way the Cavs are playing sir with Mo at the point?
Posted 02:42 PM, 01/14/2009
The Browns tradition went with the team to Baltimore. This expansion team has no tradition, other than its recent losing one. People can grab the name, and stick it on the expansion team to pretend the team never really moved, but they're only fooling themselves. And certainly, not the Browns/Ravens.
