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Do IT this week: Layering
Bizarre loss for Tribe raises some questions
By Sheldon Ocker
Beacon Journal sports writer
Published on Monday, Apr 20, 2009
NEW YORK: The Indians' 7-3 loss to the Yankees on Sunday was as bizarre in its way as the Tribe's 22-4 victory the previous day.
At least in Saturday's rout, the players, and only the players, determined who would win and who would lose. On Sunday, the umpires got into the act, and it wasn't pretty.
Two questions arose out of the ball Jorge Posada hit officially for a two-run homer that gave New York a 4-3 lead in the seventh inning: Did the umps get it right, and did it matter?
The seventh started with Rafael Perez taking over for starter Carl Pavano, who did a masterful job in giving up one run and four hits over six innings. Robinson Cano greeted Perez by slashing an opposite field double to left, and Hideki Matsui hit a soft single to center to drive in the run that cut the Cleveland lead to 3-2.
Perez got the hook, and Jensen Lewis took over. One out later, Posada batted for Jose Molina and lifted a fly to straightaway right. Trevor Crowe retreated to the fence and prepared to jump.
Crowe leaped. A fan, apparently as anxious to make the catch as Crowe, reached out for the ball. What happened after that is debatable. The ball either did or did not clear the fence; the fan either came in contact with Crowe's glove or he didn't; the fan reached
beyond the barrier onto the field or he didn't.
After viewing a replay (or more than one), crew chief Jerry Crawford signaled home run, giving the Yankees a 4-3 lead. After the game, a pool reporter asked Crawford about the play and was told, ''We have no comment.''
Whether that meant the umps had no defense also might be debatable. Replays seemed to indicate that the ball did not clear the fence. At best, it hit atop the fence, and it might not have carried quite that far.
''There definitely was contact between my glove hand and somebody else,'' Crowe said. ''I couldn't really tell where the ball was in reference to the wall.''
Had someone not touched him, would Crowe have made the catch?
''I would have caught it,'' he said. ''My glove was over the wall and above it, but it was underneath the fan.''
After the game, manager Eric Wedge said he hadn't seen the replays.
''They said the ball landed beyond the fence,'' he said of the umpires. ''I thought Trevor touched it at the top of the wall. My argument was that the fan's hand and his [Crowe's] glove met at the same time at the top of the fence, but they saw it differently.''
Lewis seems snake-bitten at Yankee Stadium and the ballpark is only four games old.
He gave up the game winner on a ninth-inning home run to right on Friday. That ball might have carried 340 feet. Posada's disputed homer was probably a 330-footer.
''It was a pop fly,'' Lewis said. ''In any other ballpark in the country, that's an out. It was a good pitch, and he just got it up in the jet stream. I don't think numbers lie. Balls that are mis-hit go out, and balls that are hit hard go out.''
Lewis was glad the series is over.
''I'm ready to leave here,'' he said. ''I don't think it's a question of [my] stuff. I feel strong. I'm throwing the ball where I want to. One day, I don't hit my spot [Friday], today I do hit my spot, and it still goes out.''
As for Question 2, had the umpires ruled the ball a double, it would have left runners at second and third, with one out. Or the umps might have ruled the runner on first would have scored, creating a tie.
The way the Tribe bullpen has been performing, that would have almost guaranteed a New York win. With two outs in the eighth, Rafael Betancourt loaded the bases and Shin-Soo Choo lost Cody Ransom's fly ball in the sun. It fell for a three-run double just inside the left field line.
The victim in all of this was Pavano, the man Yankee fans love to hate after his four-year stint in New York produced only 26 starts because of injuries.
''Pavano pitched a great ballgame for us in this [tough] environment,'' Wedge said. ''He stepped up and made pitches, all the way until his last pitch of the game.''
The Yankees loaded the bases with two outs in the sixth, but Pavano struck out Nick Swisher.
Asked whether it was difficult coming back to New York, where he is none-too-popular, Pavano said: ''It's not about the critics. It's not about me. It was about the Indians, and we lost as a team.''
Sheldon Ocker can be reached at socker@thebeaconjournal.com. Read the Indians blog at http://www.ohio.com/tribematters. Follow the Indians on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/ABJ_Indians.
NEW YORK: The Indians' 7-3 loss to the Yankees on Sunday was as bizarre in its way as the Tribe's 22-4 victory the previous day.
Get the full article here.
Comments
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Naples, FL
Posted 06:03 AM, 04/20/2009
There was only one legitimate call: Fan Interference, Batter is Out! Don't tell me it "may " have been this or that. Like everyone else, I saw the replay, just as the umps did. The fan (two of them) reached out into the field of play and came into contact with Crowe's glove and the ball hit the fans glove that was blocking Crowe's. What makes it worse is the same thing happened to choo in the second game of the series, a fan reached out and caught the ball before it got to choo and no one even argued the point. MLB needs to put a barrier up in that stadium to move the fans back a few feet just like in Cleveland.
Tallmadge, OH
Posted 06:08 AM, 04/20/2009
No fan intereference from the Channel 8 video I saw. Just another loss on the way to 100 loss season for the Tribe. It wure would have been nice if Cheapskate Dolan had added some well paid veteran players to the roster this season so we wouldn't be looking 100 losses in the eye.
Posted 06:34 AM, 04/20/2009
Even I'm tiring of OMG. He can't think of anything else to criicize about. Anyway, would have been a sweep if the bullpen had performed well. Maybe the Tribe can get it going against KC. Should have been fan interference.
Alliance, Oh
Posted 07:03 AM, 04/20/2009
Rafey right and Rafey left AINT gettin the job done! That's the problem. Betancourt takes so long between pitches that Choo probably fell asleep in left field. It was a good answer by him that he lost it in the sun though. Betancourt is starting to look alot like Mujica!
Posted 07:17 AM, 04/20/2009
I think it is a toss up, 50-50 call. Ther rule book is not clear enough when the ball is past the homer line but the player can reach into the stands...it is 50-50-...anybody's ball...
Akron, Oh
Posted 07:26 AM, 04/20/2009
OMG try another act. You didn't even watch the game you fair weather bozo.
1- It was CLEARLY fan interfernece! 2 outs runner on first tribe ahead 3-2.
2- Umpires screwed The Tribe in game 2's loss calling a 3rd strike for the final out of the game against DeRosa on a pitch that wasn't within a foot of the strike zone.
3- Both losses to the Yankees in this series were the fault of the bullpen. Unfortunately the bullpen except for Wood appears as week as the starting rotation. Rafe Perez should not pitch in critical situations until at least June. He should be a middle guy now when we are up by 30 or trailing by 30.
4- This is a good enough hitting team that if Tribe pitching can hold opponents to under a touchdown, they can contend for the division.
Hiram, GA
Posted 07:36 AM, 04/20/2009
Grump, watch the Pirates then. Too bad everyone else saw that the play was clearly interference, including the crew chief who would have no comment after the game. Once again you continue to put into print what you really am saying, "(I am a baffoon!)
Canton, OH
Posted 07:46 AM, 04/20/2009
It was fan interference - no question about it. The replay clearly shows Crowe's glove hitting a fan's glove in the field of play. At that point it is interference regardless of where the ball is. The fan reached out into the field of play! There was just no way the umpires were going to take away a HR by their beloved Posada at the new stadium.
My question is, why on Earth would they allow the fans to be right on top of the fence to allow the possibility of that, especially after what we say with Jeffrey Maier 10 years ago in the playoffs?? It doesn't make any sense considering they made changes at the old stadium to make sure that didn't happen again.
OMG, do you just get your jollies being a negative person? You actually love reading these comments replying to you don't you? Is that the person you really want to be? Think about it.
Go Tribe! Nice job Pavano...that's a good sign!
Posted 08:00 AM, 04/20/2009
The ball was over the wall when the fan tried to catch it, the player was REACHING over the wall when he hit the fan's hand. Interference or not, the Yankee's still would have won so seriously get over it already people!
Stow, OH
Posted 08:01 AM, 04/20/2009
That is one rule that should be changed and changed now .Anytime a fan comes in contact with a players glove or hand should be automatic fan interference,period ,end of story . Anything else and you end up in controversy ,like yesterday.
Fairlawn, OH
Posted 08:12 AM, 04/20/2009
Does anyone honestly think the umpire crew would have made the same call had the situation been reversed? If that ball had come off an Indian's bat they wouldn't have had a problem ruling it fan interference. The bias is unbelieveable. One should be able to expect more from an umpire making six figures while working so few days a year.
Port Saint Lucie, Fl
Posted 08:38 AM, 04/20/2009
The new stadium in NY stinks.The walls are too low and for some reason balls fly outa there as if they got wings.Plus the outfielsd is not deep enough,short fences.
If Cleveland gets their pitching straightened out they'll be ok.They have a decent offense.
Posted 09:08 AM, 04/20/2009
The loss is due to a crappy bullpen, not a bad call. They ran the replay, it wasn't interference. Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Akron, OH
Posted 09:35 AM, 04/20/2009
Hey OMG...I hope I run you over when your old arse is crossing the street. You b*tch CONSTANTLY! Worthless and annoying is all you are.
Posted 10:32 AM, 04/20/2009
People, its a moot point! The Yankees would have won even if the call had been reversed!
Posted 10:56 AM, 04/20/2009
Yes, I think the umpires make the same call either way. The umpires aren't responsible for 4-9.
Stow, Oh
Posted 11:22 AM, 04/20/2009
Brittany don't you watch T.V.? In the sci-fi movies when someone travels back in time the rule is don't alter even the smallest event as it could snowball and create major changes to history! Maybe the outcome would have been completely different. Anytime a player reaches up AND crosses an imaginary line running straight up from the front edge of the top of the wall, there cannot be interference. From the angles i was able to see, Trevor Crowe reached up and slightly over the wall at which point according to rule, the ball is fair game. I do agree that measures should be taken to keep the fans from getting anywhere near a play,especially when it effects the visiting team. Most fans aren't smart enough to not get in the way of their own teams players. All for a baseball that usually has no historical significance.
Posted 12:33 PM, 04/20/2009
I hate sci-fi...
and as for the play, it was OVER the wall and he didnt catch it.. it's a homerun.. don't care if the fan touched the ball or not... had the fan reached DOWN below the wall, it would have been different and should be called for interference. Stupid part is, make the ballparks so this can't happen!
Akron, OH
Posted 01:45 PM, 04/20/2009
@Brittany, fans do not have to reach down to be interference. Once they reach out and break the plan of the wall, they are now in the field of play. Both of these fans were clearly reaching beyond the wall. The umps basically ruled it would have been out anyways, but they could have just easily called interference on the fans.
peoria, az
Posted 01:58 PM, 04/20/2009
It was definatley fan interference!!!!!!Even if it wasnt the most it should have been was a double!!! Usually if it goes over the wall and comes back in it isnt a Homerun. It is ruled a double. But maybie they called it a homerun because there was fan interference?!GO FIGURE!!!!I think he would have caught the ball....
peoria, az
Posted 02:02 PM, 04/20/2009
HEY,BRITTANY WHO KNOWS IF THE STANKEES WOULD HAVE STILL WON THE GAME. BECAUSE SOMETIMES YOU CAN HAVE ALL MOMENTUM AND ONE CALL CAN CAUSE YOU TO LOSE IT. SO IF IT WASNT CALLED A HOMERUN WHO KNOWS WHAT THE OUTCOME WOULD HAVE BEEN. GO INDIANS AND ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS!!!!!!
Akron, Oh
Posted 03:46 PM, 04/20/2009
For those who actually WATCHED the game on STO, the replay clearly showed the fan with the glove reaching ONTO the field of play (as proven by the shadow) and making contact with Trevor's glove. 2 outs and a runner on first base is the right call. Instead, the umpires never looked at The YES network or STO's replay and made the wrong call with the limited views MLB has provided umpires.
Posted 04:12 PM, 04/20/2009
I wouldn't really say it was "clear" either way. Indians fans will say one thing, Yankees fans will say another. Either way, one play doesn't decide a ball game, the entire 9 innings does.
rootstown, oh
Posted 04:41 PM, 04/20/2009
it's baseball.who cares.
Stow, Oh
Posted 05:12 PM, 04/20/2009
Nine game homestand coming up. If the Indians are going to stay in the Central race at all, they really need 6 or 7 of these games. Getting to .500 should be the first goal and then hopefully take off from there.
Canton, OH
Posted 05:39 PM, 04/20/2009
We got hosed in the Bronx. .Just like Friday when Cuzzi called Ball 4 a strike on DeRosa. . .
Posted 07:54 PM, 04/20/2009
People,
Even the Indians GM Mark Shapiro says that MLB got it right after seeing the YES Network replay from center field.
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2009/04/cleveland_indians_blog_gm_mark.html
Posted 06:56 AM, 04/21/2009
When the fan's glove smashed into Crowe's glove the ball came straight down and Crowe almost made the catch again.
There's only one call, fan interference, batter is out.
I am so tired of everybody being afraid of NY and their fans.
